Help please! Metal/Cardboard aftertaste without oxidation?

[toestothesun]

Hi guys,

The last three beers I've brewed have all had this metal/cardboard aftertaste. This is really frustrating as I've taken what I believe are all the necessary steps to avoid oxidizing the beer. The only time the beer is moved/shaken substantially is right before/after pitching the yeast into the carboy. I tend to be generous with star-San as I want to minimize risk of infection. Also, due to chloramines in my water, I use campden tablets in all water that touches the beer. The only thing that may/may not be contributing to this flavor is the brass ball valve on my brew kettle? I'm really not sure and so this is driving me nuts!

Can someone help? I've got ingredients to brew this weekend but this most recent batch (bottled) has me hesitating to brew it because I don't want to taste this again. Thank you

Here's a link to the local water report.
http://www.vbgov.com/government/dep...ality/Documents/Water Quality Report 2014.pdf

 

[mkyl428]

From How to Brew - By, John Palmer

Metallic
Metallic flavors are usually caused by unprotected metals dissolving into the wort but can also be caused by the hydrolysis of lipids in poorly stored malts. Iron and aluminum can cause metallic flavors leaching into the wort during the boil. The small amount could be considered to be nutritional if it weren't for the bad taste. Nicks and cracks ceramic coated steel pots are a common cause as are high iron levels in well water. Stainless steel pots will not contribute any metallic flavors. Aluminum pots usually won't cause metallic flavors unless the brewing water is alkaline with a pH level greater than 9. Shiny new aluminum pots will sometimes turn black when boiling water due to chlorine and carbonates in the water.

 

[Jawbox0]

What is your water source? That's where I'd start.

 

[toestothesun]

Thanks Mkyl. My pot is stainless.

 

[toestothesun]

Jawbox,

Here's the water quality report. Besides treating with campden, what else can I do?

http://www.vbgov.com/government/dep...ality/Documents/Water Quality Report 2014.pdf

 

[brewprint]

Are you using dry yeast?

That is the flavors that I used to get until I started using liquid yeast. Now that's all gone.

 

[Yooper]

Jawbox,

Here's the water quality report. Besides treating with campden, what else can I do?

http://www.vbgov.com/government/dep...ality/Documents/Water Quality Report 2014.pdf

I don't see much in that water report, except that it's safe to drink in Virginia Beach.

You can try using reverse osmosis water for one batch, from those big "water machines" at the grocery store, and see if that fixes the problem. I don't know much about water throughout the country, but many areas have iron in their water which will come through in the taste of the beer.

 

[McKnuckle]

The water report doesn't say anything about total hardness, alkalinity due to bicarbonates, and pH. Particularly the last two can have major impact on the mash and finished beer. My well water was the cause of off flavors in several of my beers before I learned how to deal with it. They were either soapy (my wife's term), bitter not-from-hops but with an unpleasant twang, and/or less than fresh (not crisp) tasting. Dark beers were better than light ones, but not by much. I ended up switching to Poland Spring or distilled water and adding salts. Much better ever since.

 

[toestothesun]

Are you using dry yeast?

That is the flavors that I used to get until I started using liquid yeast. Now that's all gone.

I have used both dry and liquid, same results. Thanks for the response.

I don't see much in that water report, except that it's safe to drink in Virginia Beach.

You can try using reverse osmosis water for one batch, from those big "water machines" at the grocery store, and see if that fixes the problem. I don't know much about water throughout the country, but many areas have iron in their water which will come through in the taste of the beer.

Thanks Yooper, I may give that a try.

The water report doesn't say anything about total hardness, alkalinity due to bicarbonates, and pH. Particularly the last two can have major impact on the mash and finished beer. My well water was the cause of off flavors in several of my beers before I learned how to deal with it. They were either soapy (my wife's term), bitter not-from-hops but with an unpleasant twang, and/or less than fresh (not crisp) tasting. Dark beers were better than light ones, but not by much. I ended up switching to Poland Spring or distilled water and adding salts. Much better ever since.

I'm completely ignorant regarding water chemistry, etc. I was hoping this would be a simple fix It sounds like if I have to start balancing my brewing water I may be in a bit over my head Thanks for the feedback McKnuckle

 

[billybryson54]

Me personally, that off flavor went away when I stopped using campden and started using a water filter. Can't say for sure that it was the campden or my water that was causing it but one thing is for sure, that flavor has never come back


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[McKnuckle]

I'm completely ignorant regarding water chemistry, etc.

Oh, you have my sympathy... I was in the same boat because all the chemistry makes my head spin, even though I love the science behind brewing in general. But at the end of the day, it did turn out to be an actual problem so I had to adjust the pencil behind my ear and sit up in class. Most recipes can be made to work using distilled or spring water and only two salt additions (gypsum and CaCl).

Read the water treatment material on the "How to Brew" website, and play around with the water calculator on BrewersFriend.com using other people's profiles that are easily found online. Half the battle is just accepting the need to get into it.

Of course there's no guarantee this is your issue, but it certainly could be. High bicarbonate (residual alkalinity) is a particular bugaboo. When my wife used the term "soapy" it was the key... I Googled that and someone had made the connection between that flavor and bicarbonate. I had never thought to describe the flavor that way; to me it was a bitter, sometimes medicinal, perhaps oxidized twang. I'm not sophisticated enough to describe it properly, but it's gone now that I've moved to "cleaner" water.