Help me make a big Belgian

[alemonkey]

Now that temps in my house are warming up I'm looking to make a big Belgian style beer. If I ferment in the right place I can maintain about 75 degrees as opposed to 65-70 in the basement. The extra couple of degrees should help produce those esters needed in a Belgian style. Here's what I'm looking at for a Tripel recipe - any comments?

6 gallon batch
1.087 @75% efficiency

12 lbs Pilsener
2 lbs Vienna
3 lbs light candi sugar
1.5 oz East Kent Goldings @60 min (21 IBU)
White Labs WLP500 Trappist Ale yeast

I plan on doing a step mash and mashing at a lower temperature to make sure I have a highly fermentable wort, as well as adding yeast nutrient and aerating the heck out of the wort. I want this to be a really dry beer.

I'm also wondering if it's appropriate or worthwhile to add some spices to the beer, like orange peel or grains of paradise? I'm looking for something with a lot of that Belgian funkiness.

 

[the_bird]

What I'm interested in experimenting with are some of those dark candy syrups, like this:

Someone (Brewsmith?) made a beer that I tried using that syrup that was really complex and tasty. When I finally get around to brewing a Belgian, I'm probably going to play around with that rather than the rock candi.

 

[zoebisch01]

I'm also wondering if it's appropriate or worthwhile to add some spices to the beer, like orange peel or grains of paradise? I'm looking for something with a lot of that Belgian funkiness.

My experience has been that these are not needed, just keep your ferment temp low the first day or so (maybe start it in the basement) and then bring it up to the warmer temps on say like day three. I think you have a fairly good recipe going, although you may be hitting the upper range for sugar.

 

[sirsloop]

I'm not sure what kinda beer you are shooting for, but every belgian I have ever made had at least some orange peel in it... the wits have coriander, and the pistoles clone has star anise. I used the light rocks in a wit recipe to make a "blance de chambly" clone. From what I understand, that dark belgian candi syrup is the LME equivalent of dark belgian candi rocks (which would be like DME). One in the same... just different delivery method.

Make a large starter for this beer and ferment at 70-75F. Keep in mind, this will need to age....like 2-3 months minimum...

 

[the_bird]

From what I understand, that dark belgian candi syrup is the LME equivalent of dark belgian candi rocks (which would be like DME). One in the same... just different delivery method.

That's not what I've heard, but I have no personal experience here. From what I understand, it's basically all the residue from the candi-making process.

 

[sirsloop]

i've never actually used the dark syrup...ive used light and dark rocks a number of times. Dark tastes pretty similar to light rocks...maybe a bit more licorice notes in it. I think its to keep the adjunct grain/malt notes down while adding color and alcohol.

 

[the_bird]

You know, I might brew something like this sooner rather than later. Wife's away for a couple more days, so I feel like I ought to be brewing! Maybe I'll skip out of work a bit early this afternoon and head over to the HBS. I'm wondering about the hops, though; I use a lot of EKG, I like EKG, but I'd like to do something a bit different; what other hops might be appropriate for my Bulgin' Belgian?

 

[sirsloop]

I love saaz... light and smell great. Hops are really the least of your worries I think. The alcohol is going to be balancing our the malts in this brew...

 

[the_bird]

I think I'll go a little bit smaller (kinda have to, the way my efficiency runs )

What do you think of a little Special B in there for some raisen-ey malt character? Like, a quarter pound, or maybe a tiny bit more?

Good call on the Saaz... think that's what I'll do. Prolly bittering only, maybe a TINY addition at 5 minutes.

 

[sirsloop]

1-2oz at boil...

 

[the_bird]

Sorry to thread-jack, but anyone have any comments on the yeast choices? Thinking either WLP500 (Trappist), WLP550 (Belgian Ale), or WLP 575 (Belgian Blend) - sounds like the 500 is fruity, the 550 is spicy, the 575 blend is a mix; anyone have experience to relate here? I'm leaning towards the 575 blend if the HBS has it; the Saaz hops ought to give me some spice character anyway, and if I go with the Special B I should get some more deep fruitiness. Debating on the orange peel, too.

 

[sirsloop]

no help here as far as experience with those strains... I went with WLP570 Belgian Golden for the Pistoles...

Keep in mind if you want a dry beer you want kick butt attenuation. Maybe start with whatever flavor characteristics you want, then add in some super crazy yeast at the end to drive the FG down. I kinda like a sweet note on the belgian though. It makes those fruity flavors a little nicer.

 

[the_bird]

I'm thinking along the lines of a Golden Strong Ale, although a bit on the low side (1075-ish, not 1100-ish). Balance between fruity and spicey. I am going to try that dark syrup if he still has it in stock. Not going to go for an uber-dry finish, I agree that a bit of sweetness ought to help bring out those flavors.

Damn, now I'm stoked! Never brewed anything like this before...

 

[zoebisch01]

You know, I might brew something like this sooner rather than later. Wife's away for a couple more days, so I feel like I ought to be brewing! Maybe I'll skip out of work a bit early this afternoon and head over to the HBS. I'm wondering about the hops, though; I use a lot of EKG, I like EKG, but I'd like to do something a bit different; what other hops might be appropriate for my Bulgin' Belgian?

Tettnanger works well too.

 

[zoebisch01]

Sorry to thread-jack, but anyone have any comments on the yeast choices? Thinking either WLP500 (Trappist), WLP550 (Belgian Ale), or WLP 575 (Belgian Blend) - sounds like the 500 is fruity, the 550 is spicy, the 575 blend is a mix; anyone have experience to relate here? I'm leaning towards the 575 blend if the HBS has it; the Saaz hops ought to give me some spice character anyway, and if I go with the Special B I should get some more deep fruitiness. Debating on the orange peel, too.

I have had great success with the 550. I really, really like it. It gave my one Ale a tremendous (I think so anyways) cherry tone. The Special B is a great addition, you don't need much to notice it especially if you have a fairly simple malt profile going. As for attenuation, that strain does 85%.

 

[DeathBrewer]

550 is my favorite. i always keep at the lower range, too, about 68 degrees. you still get the fruity esters at those temps, but it's more balanced and adds that spiciness that i personally love

 

[Brewsmith]

My name came up in the thread so I guess I shoud reply. I did use the candi sugar syrup that bird pictured. The stuff is great. I would reccomend using it. The yeast I used was the WLP-570 Golden Ale just for the little higher attenuation. My recipe is here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=21477
It's been six months since I brewed it and I just bottled it last week. The yeast went to town on it, even after I put it in the secondary. It dropped several gravity points over the few months it was sitting. This beer is great. :rockin:

 

[sirsloop]

You guys are getting me all worked up over this big belgian stuff. As long as my coffee stout has sufficient carbonation I may go home and toss the pistoles on tap

 

[the_bird]

My name came up in the thread so I guess I shoud reply. I did use the candi sugar syrup that bird pictured. The stuff is great. I would reccomend using it. The yeast I used was the WLP-570 Golden Ale just for the little higher attenuation. My recipe is here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=21477
It's been six months since I brewed it and I just bottled it last week. The yeast went to town on it, even after I put it in the secondary. It dropped several gravity points over the few months it was sitting. This beer is great. :rockin:

See, 7,000 posts made, hundreds of thousands read, and I still remember **** like that!

I see you used aromatic malt as well; I've been meaning to try that, I think I may do what you did and do that quarter-pound of that and the Special B. Couple pounds of Vienna, 10-12 lbs of Pils malt... something noble for bittering, some Saaz for flavor... I'm still debating on the yeast, if he has it I'll probably compromise and go with the 575 blend. Definately the syrup, I'll be pissed if he's all out.

Thanks for the help, even though this wasn't my thread - lots of great thinking!

 

[Brewsmith]

As soon as I read it, I knew you were talking about me, even before I read my name! If you use the syrup, plan on leaving it in secondary for a while. I remember seeing tiny bubbles coming up from the bottom of the carboy for a couple months and the airlock always had positive pressure. If I was going to do this again, the only change I'd make is to bump up the hops all around just a little.

 

[the_bird]

When did you add the syrup? Late in the boil?

 

[Brewsmith]

Yeah, in the last 5 minutes or so.

 

[Brewsmith]

The stuff is pretty thick, so treat it like LME. It's probably a good idea to heat it up so it flows better.

 

[the_bird]

Grrr... I was wrong, he doesn't have the syrup.

I was listening to Jamil talk about a Belgian Dark Strong Ale on the way over the mountain, and he is a LOT more aggressive about the speciality malts. Like, a pound of aromatic, a POUND of Special B, plus others. But, he's not using any dark syrups or dark candi sugar (but he does use some regular table sugar). I ended up buying a bag of amber candi sugar, thinking that since I doubt that will have as much flavor, I'll bump up the aromatic and Special B to a half-pound each. Also bought some caramunich, not sure how much of that to add (prolly a similar amount).

Oh, and after hemming and hawing, I decided on the WLP550. I'll make a starter either tonight or in the morning.

 

[Brewsmith]

Sounds good. Let us know how it comes out.

 

[sirsloop]

My pistoles called for a pound of Lyles Golden Syrup... the stuff is like light colored maple syrup. BTW it went in the keggerator last night

 

[the_bird]

I thought about that, but it's an ingredient that's more commonly used in English beers, so I decided against it.

I'm reading Brew Like A Monk right now, and they are totally anti-candi rocks, seems that they are basically no different, chemically, from regular table sugar. I'm not sure what extra flavors get added to the "amber" crystals. Seems, though, that the syrup I posted about early on and that I was disappointed was unavailable sounds like it is very close to the "candi sugar" that is traditionally used.

 

[sirsloop]

I suppose the rocks may not be chemically much different than table sugar, but I can assure you it tastes different.

 

[alemonkey]

Wow, looks like there's a lot of interest in big-a$$ Belgians:rockin:

So, I think I'm going to go with my original recipe, as is. I'm off to the store - hopefully he has enough sugar!