Help deciding what to do for water profiles and source

[Silver_Is_Money]

Ok that makes more sense, so your saying calcium plus magnesium plus sodium has to equal the amounts of chloride and sulfate? And you can predict this based off the alkalinity and hardness? Sorry i dont remember anything from high school chemistry. Lol. So basically my water is pretty soft and could probably be used for a light lager or something only by removing the chlorine?

On strictly a mEq/L basis waters cations must equal anions. mEq/L (milliequivalents per liter) is not the same thing as ppm (mg/L).

mEq = milliequivalent = (milligrams/molecular weight) x valence

mEq/L = the number of milliequivalents present within 1 Liter of water

Ca+2, Mg+2, and Na+ are cations
SO4-2, Cl-, and alkalinity are anions

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Yes, you water is soft. Yes, you need to add Campden to remove the chlorine. 1/4 tablet (crushed) for each 5 gallons.

For a light lager I would probably target 40 to 50 ppm calcium (Ca++) via the addition of only CaCl2 (calcium chloride).

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

When calculating ions mEq's remember that you are dealing with the actual and molecular weights of the individual ions.

For example:

5 grams of CaSO4 to be added:

MW of CaSO4 = 136.1406
MW of Ca++ = 40.078
MW of SO4 -- = 96.063

Ca++ = (40.078/136.1406)*5 = 1.472 grams = 1,472 mg
SO4-- = (96.063/136.1406)*5 = 3.528 grams = 3,528 mg

Quick check: 1.472 grams of Ca++ plus 3.528 grams of SO4-- = 5 grams

mEq's of Ca++ = 1,472 x 2/40.078 = 73.457
mEq's of SO4-- = 3,528 x 2/96.063 = 73.451

The very slight difference between them is due only to rounding error. For any individual molecule, its cation component mEq's and anion component mEq's must be equal. This is why it is impossible to make impossible water by adding minerals, whereas opposed to this it is quite common and easy to dream up factually impossible water (where the cations and anions do not balance). When dreaming up an ideal water for a given recipe it is likely pure luck if what you dreamed of on paper actually balances with regard to cation and anion mEq's, thus most of us dream of using factually impossible water profiles that look great on paper.

For mEq's/L simply divide mEq's by the Liters of your water.

 

[SHAIV]

Thank you everyone for the help! I brewed the 10 gallon wheat ale yesterday and got about 83% efficiency! Way exceeded my expectations! I added salts to be close to a base water profile using the bru’n water software and then added lactic acid to lower the ph to around 5.35 or so. Had a little hiccup with my makeshift herms coil getting partially clogged but other than that i think the brew day went very well.

 

[eric19312]

@Silver_Is_Money 's suggestion in post #26 is spot on.

My practice when designing a new brew/grist is to first decide my target mash pH and then think about total and ratio of sulphate and chloride desired. All of the software out there gets pretty much the same answer on PPM chloride and sulphate with salt additions so I will start in one package like Bru'n water and figure out my salt additions then solve for acid requirement to hit target pH. Might get results like 10 grams gypsum and 5 grams CaCl2 and 3mL lactic to get to predicted pH 5.40. I will then check a few other calculators, holding the salt additions at the same gypsum/CaCl2 amounts and solve for lactic to get predicted pH 5.40. All will come up with suggesting different amounts of lactic in the mash. Beersmith tends high in many grists, Bru'n water runs low, and I am building experience with water engine, mash made easy and others.

I then record these calculations in my recipe notes, pick an acid addition based on the results and my experience with similar grists and brew. Then I make sure to calibrate my pH meter and get a room temperature pH reading of the mash at 30 minutes after dough in and record this actual value in my brewing notes. Over time I expect to develop a better sense of which calculator is best for my water and I also suspect some may be better at different kinds of grists than others. I mainly brew with base malts and adjuncts with only small if any additions of roasted or caramel malts. Since I rely on tap water and while generally soft I know there is variability over the year so I don't see a future where I will not want to test and record actual pH in most of my brews.

 

[Soulshine2]

Hey so ive been researching water profiles and adjusting water. My last beer i brewed i started with distilled and built my water from that with brewers friend software. Ill probably use bru’n water next time though. Its more detailed. Anyway im interested in skipping the step of going to walmart to get distilled water and using my home water for a source. Ive got a carbon filter for a refrigerator that i could probably rig up under my sink and use it strictly fir brew water. Or i have a friend that will give me an out of service RO filter system that i might could use for brewing. I dont really want to fork over 42$ for ward labs test at this time. I know, im cheap lol. If i have to i may end up doing that eventually but not right now. I emailed my city water supply and i got some info on my water. It seems a harsh to drink to me so ive never used it for brewing before. I know i would have to get rid of the chlorine first at least but i got this info on my water. I believe i got a few water inputs but i may be missing a few. Heres the info i got

View attachment 632564

View attachment 632565

View attachment 632566

I think i have PH, calcium, sodium, and maybe one more.
Is there anything im missing? Is there something here that is renamed or something? Like hardness is calcium right? Or wrong?

If you cant drink what comes out of your tap , I wouldnt brew with it either. I would do as you have and invest in a good carbon filter at the very least. Maybe go ahead and preboil your water a day or two in advance of brew day. I consider myself lucky to have good tasting water.

 

[SHAIV]

I drink it filtered from my fridge but one time i bought an off brand water filter to try to save money over buying the 50$ water filter and the water tasted horrible. Like it wasnt even being filtered. Needless to say i stick with the expensive brand name filters

Also I got so tired of going to the store and buying 10 gallons of water and this brew was a 10 gallon batch so i needed almost 16 gallons. It added about 80 cents per gallon to my brew costs along with buying ice for my ice water chiller which i also cut out by making about 5 or 6 gallons of ice in advance and separating it out in my freezers. So i basically saved about 25$ on this 10 gallon batch by using my city water for water source and ice source

 

[eric19312]

You might want to try something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006IX87S/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

My water tastes pretty good out of the tap but we filter it for drinking anyway. I still treat it with campden tablet on brew day.

 

[SHAIV]

I have an inline ice maker filter i got for that but id have to plumb it up as a permanent thing which i dont especially like or what i might do is figure out a way to use one of my pumps to pump my city water from one vessel through that filter and into my kettle and HLT