HELP - Can I re-ferment?

[dougget]

Here’s the deal.
I have two different kinds of flip top bottles.
I fermented my cider and back sweetened it and bottles it. Let it ferment in the bottles for one week and then pasturized it.

results
Bottle type 1: Good seal and sweet carbonated cider.
Bottle type 2: Bad seal and sweet flat cider.

for the 3 gallons I put into bottle type two, can I dump them all into a carboy with some yeast and restart the process?

really just want to activate yeast and rebottle in better bottles.
Thoughts?

Thanks
Doug

 

[Chalkyt]

This is all a bit of supposition as you don't mention SG but I would guess that if you back sweetened up from fully fermented at 1.000 you might have bottled at something like 1.015/1.020. After a week this could generate around 2.5 to 3 volumes of CO2 as the SG would have fallen by 0.005 over that time (sort of lines up with your "good" results).

Pasteurising at above 70C with this CO2 volume would generate something like 150psi in the bottle which is where some flip top seals tend to leak, so your "bad" bottles would have lost a lot of their fizz. So it all seems to make sense.

As you now have sweet, flat, cider I would check the SG (there is almost certainly residual sugar), then adjust this for the sweetness that you want. Add extra sugar or allow for carbonation at the rate of two SG points per volume of CO2 that you want (i.e. 5 points for 2.5 vols of CO2), add new yeast and bottle with good seals. It should work, since Jolicoeur and others sometimes suggest adding yeast for carbonation if the cider has been maturing at 1.000 for an extended period. Then pasteurise after a week, as that time seemed to work for your "good" bottles.

Just be conscious of not "forgetting" to pasteurise as permanent pressure could build up to 150 psi or more and although bottles will generally handle this pressure for a short while, they can fail under extended pressure.

 

[dougget]

Hi,
Yes, I backsweetened from fully fermented cider.
I need to get better about the math... but yes, your assumptions about bottling at 1.015-1.020 and SG falling to 1.005 in bottle is probably right.

Ok, I'm going to re-ferment starting tomorrow. Need to get another air lock since I backsweetend with two different formulas and want to keep them separate. (one with white sugar and the other with brown)

I also need to get a new hydrometer with a SG scale. Mine has potential alcohol, proof, and brix. Don't like having to convert to SG all the time.

Thanks,
Doug

 

[dougget]

Well, I put about 10 liters of cider back into a carboy and added 1 cup of simple syrup. Pitched my yeast and it's been sitting for a couple of days now... no bubbles. Should I just dump this 2.5 gallons and start a new batch?
Thinking it's not worth playing around with such a small amount.
Thoughts?
Thanks.

 

[Yooper]

Well, I put about 10 liters of cider back into a carboy and added 1 cup of simple syrup. Pitched my yeast and it's been sitting for a couple of days now... no bubbles. Should I just dump this 2.5 gallons and start a new batch?
Thinking it's not worth playing around with such a small amount.
Thoughts?
Thanks.

Any hydrometer readings?
How's it taste?

 

[dougget]

SG of the cider was about 1.005 out of the flat bottles. Then I added 1 cup of brown sugar to bump it up just a bit.
There's definitely sugar available for the yeast.
It tasted fine, I just wanted to kick it off again so I could carbonate in the bottles.
Doug