Hefeweizen CO2 volume argument

[Boleslaus]

how are people dispensing hefe's at 3.5vols from a keg?

i have 20' of line, 21psi for 3.4 vols and it's still a foamy mess

Are you using that fancy bev line that is designed to impart no plastic taste? If so the resistance is much lower. Using some online calculators 12 feet of line should be plenty to carb up to 20 psi if you are using normal line with a resistance of 2 lbs. per foot.

 

[Larso]

guys, I've been weighing bottles from my stash to compare and the results are as follows:
franziskaner hefe 272g
tyskie(i think) 282g
hobgoblin 320g
budvar( green) 335g
fullers London pride 381g

is franziskaner typically carbonated for a hefe weisen? These bottles are all 500ml and the weights indicate that franziskaner is the flimsiest or is it very low carbonation for a hefe weissen?I've read this whole thread but I'm still nervous for my Christmas dinner guests of exploding bottles I'm thinking of carbing to 3.5 Vols co2 and I hope to be drinking this on Christmas day!


thanks

L

 

[emjay]

Weight doesn't necessarily correlate to strength.

For one, two shapes of the same volume can have dramatically different surface area (and surface area really determines weight, along with thickness). Breaking the bottles and measuring the thickness of glass would provide a more relevant measurement. Not to mention that thickness is not necessarily uniform. A bottle is only as strong as its weakest point, so any weight contributed by additional thickness at certain parts is largely useless.

And then there's the actual geometry/design of the bottle. Some bottle shapes are able to better withstand pressure than others. That's a bit more difficult for the layperson to determine.

Lastly, it's possible that the glass used in a given bottle is just stronger than the glass used in a typical bottle. TBH, I don't know how wide the variance among different bottles is, IF it even exists to any significant degree. But this possibility really can't be discounted.

The point is, it's difficult to come to any meaningful conclusion based on the weight of the bottle alone.

 

[Larso]

Thanks Emjay. I get your point but I use weight because the bottle shapes are all similar as are the heights. I assumed this would suggest that it's an indicator of glass thickness more or less. Thing is I've had loads of people tell me I'm pushin my luck carbing my hefe weizen to 3.5 vols of co2 or greater but no one has said they've tried and failed. Another point that confuses me is that I regularly see posters saying they've over carbed their bottles and their getting foam geysers when they open one. If a bottle can hold the volumes of co2 required to make a beer foam out the top until it's undrinkable surely any hefe weizen carb level is less than that???

Thanks

L

 

[Rundownhouse]

I've carbed thousands of bottles to just over 4 volumes, and that's using a pretty cheap bottle. You'll be fine at 3.5.

 

[Larso]

Thanks Rundownhouse, your the first guy to say that. Haven't had anyone claiming to have treated bottle bombs either just people saying 'wouldn't do that !'

L

 

[Larso]

Carbed them up to 3.5 vols of CO2 and no explosions. Theyre well carbed up and I used a selection of homebrew shop bottles which are pretty strong but I also used some tyskie,budvar,Fuller and hobgoblin bottles. nothing to worry about!!!

L

 

[Toy4Rick]

My last Hef I carb'd with 8.0 oz of corn sugar for a 5.0 gal batch, right at 4.0 volumes and had 1 bottle bomb which I contributed to a defective bottle since it blew the bottom off. All of my bottles are mixed head stamp to the point I don't know one from the other.

2-3 weeks in the bottle, they were perfect, after that they were over carbonated, very tasty but over carbonated.

I will drop it back to 3.0 the next time

Toy4Rick

 

[kraypd]

I did a CO2 check on a bottle of Franziskaner this past week and it came out a bit over 4 volumes.

Rundownhouse - what is your procedure for doing a CO2 check on a bottle? Curious about this.

 

[Rundownhouse]

Used a Zahm... I want to say a Zahm series 7000, but I'm not positive that's right since its been a while since that was posted.

 

[kraypd]

Thanks for the quick response.

 

[Kyleklingler]

You guys are using 3 to 4 pounds to initially carbinate the beer in the keg, but how much do you use to bring it out the tap? I am new at kegging.

 

[Rundownhouse]

That's gonna depend on several different factors. Google "balancing a draft system" for some good info.

 

[LymanBrewing]

You guys are using 3 to 4 pounds to initially carbinate the beer in the keg, but how much do you use to bring it out the tap? I am new at kegging.

If you didn't find your answer, there was a thread that covers this pretty well

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/cure-your-short-hose-troubles-100151/

 

[fosaisu]

You guys are using 3 to 4 pounds to initially carbinate the beer in the keg, but how much do you use to bring it out the tap? I am new at kegging.

In general you're best off serving beer at the same pressure you used to carb it (so that you're not constantly having to turn it up and down to serve/maintain carb level, plus many people report foaming problems when they serve at a lower pressure than the beer is carbed to). To do that with a hefe, soda, or other highly carbed beverage, you'll just need sufficiently long beer lines (or you can use the mixing sticks linked to in the post above this one, those have worked well for me with sodas). As far as how long the beer lines would need to be, that depends on what type of tubing you're using and to a somewhat lesser extent on other factors (for example vertical rise from the keg to the faucet). If you search for "beer line length" you'll find lots of threads on the topic.

My anecdotal experience: I use Accuflex Bev-Seal and have had good luck using ~18 feet for beers at 2-2.5 vols, ~ 22 feet for a wheat beer carbed to 3 volumes, and ~ 40 feet for soda at 35 PSI at 38 degrees (off the carbonation chart but presumably 4.75-5 vols). I started with those lengths after doing lots of reading in various threads including this one, and have been totally satisfied (with one exception -- I had to add mixers to my rootbeer keg dip tube b/c unlike other sodas my rootbeers kept over-foaming even with a 40' tube length). If you use standard beer tubing, you can use much shorter lengths -- I've only ever used Bev-Seal so I can't comment from experience on how much less.

 

[BIAS]

Just thought I would throw in my $0.02 after having used this thread. A few months ago I brewed Edworts Heff, I didn't cold crash and carbonated to 3.5 volumes using 11.6g/L of dextrose. Came out great, wouldn't say it was over carbed at all. Also I bottled into a large variety of bottles including some thin looking mineral water bottles, didn't have any explosions.

 

[mjohnd]

This is a great old thread.

Regarding the problem of serving a highly carbed hefe from a keg, I keep it very cold thus allowing me to lower the psi a little, use a long line, and serve it using my blichmann beer gun.

 

[Paintdudeluke]

I tapped a keg of Erdinger Hefe Weizen and it was kegged at 22psi. As I ran it around 12psi, it seemed to flatten out. Now I keep it charged at 18psi and lower my pressure when its time to pour. I don't think I'd even need to do that to make pours easier if I add 10ft to my pour line to balance it out. Which is in the mail Carbonation pressure is unrelated to pressure needed to flow to the tap, but High pressure is a foam magnet so either balance out the resistance with a longer line, or just turn it down when you are dispensing. I'm FAR from a pro at this but, but that seems to be the equation.

 

[metaltim]

Carbonation pressure is unrelated to pressure needed to flow to the tap, but High pressure is a foam magnet so either balance out the resistance with a longer line, or just turn it down when you are dispensing.

Turning it down just before pouring a beer does absolutely nothing. The 'system' will not instantaneously change pressures that fast. In fact it won't change at all until you release some of the pressure (either pouring a beer or bleeding keg), and even then, it's a slow process.

Think about this way, if a keg is carbed up at 18 psi, you could unhook the pressure hose altogether, and that pressure won't change assuming no leaks. It will stay at 18 psi indefinitely. You could pour a pint, and while technically it lost just the slightest bit of pressure, for all intents and purposes, it's still at 18 psi.

Set your carbonation at CARBING pressure (based on the vols of CO2 you need for that temp) and LEAVE it. Then use either hose, or other alternate methods mentioned in the thread to get that beer to 1 psi at the tap.