Heat stick build

[processhead]

No need to ground the kettle because the fluid will always be in contact with the metal pipe and then trip the gfci since the ground wire is touching the metal pipe. If the fluid is not in contact with the metal pipe then the element is running dry and I have bigger problems than the kettle being energized.

You would be unlikely to ever find a commercial or consumer electrical product with any ungrounded metallic parts that come in contact with water, or with your body, or used in a damp location.

you have grounded the metal parts of the element, which is good, and while its true that the liquid in a kettle creates a somewhat conductive path, you are relying on something less than ideal for a ground path.

If your GFCI malfunctions, the circuit might not clear if the heating element or associated wiring shorts while in the kettle. If you are touching the kettle, then you become the path to ground.

It's your gear, but for your own safety, I would strongly suggest grounding your kettle when using your heat sticks.

 

[Strecker25]

And is a jumper to the kettle to the metal part of the heatstick sufficient?

 

[processhead]

And is a jumper to the kettle to the metal part of the heatstick sufficient?

Yeah, That's how I would do it.
Add a screw and locknut to the top of the kettle where you can attach a 14 gauge wire with some ring terminals crimped to it.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Ok, while I do agree with the above, i find it interesting that my UL listed electric turkey fryer is not GFI protected ?

Do they assume the user provides this protection?

 

[dlaramie08]

How will grounding the kettle to the heat stick help if you're imagining a situation where the gfci fails?

 

[processhead]

How will grounding the kettle to the heat stick help if you're imagining a situation where the gfci fails?

A short from the element/ wiring to the grounded kettle will clear the branch circuit breaker on over-current.

The heat stick ground is the only return path back to the panel ground. That's why the kettle needs to be tied back to to the heat stick ground.

 

[processhead]

Ok, while I do agree with the above, i find it interesting that my UL listed electric turkey fryer is not GFI protected ?

Do they assume the user provides this protection?

Modern appliances that are not grounded are typically double-insulated.

They are designed so that any single insulation failure is isolated such that they can't contact the user.

This link has a pretty good explanation of appliance classifications and how they work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appliance_classes

 

[dlaramie08]

Okie dokie.

 

[millstone]

Yeah, That's how I would do it.
Add a screw and locknut to the top of the kettle where you can attach a 14 gauge wire with some ring terminals crimped to it.

I use a metal spring clamp to clamp my L-type metal heat sticks to the side of my aluminum HLT and BK so that they stay in place. Would this give the same grounding protection as a jumper to the pot(s)?

thanks

tom

 

[Strecker25]

another question on the building/using of these heatsticks. Ultimately I will be building a Kal clone, and do not want to do work twice. Would it be possible to put in my 50A spa panel with GFCI which runs back to the main panel on a 30a breaker, and temporarily wire two 20A outlets to the new spa panel? Not sure I simply wire each outlet to a single hot leg of the 220 run, after gfci breaker of course.

I just dont want to put in too much "temporary" equipment while building my control panel.

EDIT: Just realized I'd not be protecting the 15A runs with a breaker of the correct size, so I guess I'd have to put two breakers into the spa panel?

EDIT2: Turns out the HD spa panel does not gfci protect added circuits, so those have to then be gfci protected either at the breaker, or the outlet. This at least saves me from having two 12ga runs back to the panel for two new circuits, but ultimately will not save much cash as i'll still need two 15a gfci outlets to protect the heatsticks.

Thanks again

 

[dlaramie08]

I use a metal spring clamp to clamp my L-type metal heat sticks to the side of my aluminum HLT and BK so that they stay in place. Would this give the same grounding protection as a jumper to the pot(s)?

thanks

tom

I was just going to post that no was going to do something similar and was going to pose the same question. Hopefully it will be sufficient.

 

[processhead]

I use a metal spring clamp to clamp my L-type metal heat sticks to the side of my aluminum HLT and BK so that they stay in place. Would this give the same grounding protection as a jumper to the pot(s)?

thanks

tom

The goal of system grounding is to create a continuous low resistance connection from the appliance all the way back to your service panel.

A spring-loaded clip could be a hit or miss proposition.

 

[dlaramie08]

Well I would imagine the metal of the clip would be less resistance than the human body, so I'm gonna go with that.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Well I would imagine the metal of the clip would be less resistance than the human body, so I'm gonna go with that.

In addition to GFI!

 

[dlaramie08]

In addition to GFI!

Correct. I've got that covered already.

 

[wilserbrewer]

A short from the element/ wiring to the grounded kettle will clear the branch circuit breaker on over-current.

The heat stick ground is the only return path back to the panel ground. That's why the kettle needs to be tied back to to the heat stick ground.

I don't fully understand this, a short from the element would need to pass through the exterior of the element which is grounded. For the kettle to be energized it would take a broken GFI and a broken ground wire?

I have an electric turkey fryer with an immersion element, the aluminum kettle is not grounded?

 

[wilserbrewer]

Ok, I think I got it...

If your wire feeding the stick is compromised, or broken and the gfi fails, the kettle could be energized.

 

[dlaramie08]

Plan for the worst, hope for the best I guess.

 

[Epimetheus]

I just did a whole 3 gallon batch with a 1500W heatstick on the work bench, BIAB style! :rockin:

I have converted to metric - it heated 14l (4 gal) of water to 62C. The grains were mashed for 75 minutes. It took 30 minutes to get 13l from mash temp to a boil. Really, the electric BIAB kettle should be super-insulated - it was wrapped with Reflectix and then swaddled in towels. The boil was very vigorous when it was partly covered, still allowing DMS to evaporate.

Most of the heat loss was from the meeting point of the upper rim and outer diameter of the lid where it was difficult to insulate, and from the bare bottom. If it was very well insualated with a hole on top, a 1.5kW stick could manage full 21l batches with a little patience. Two sticks would be the premium!

 

[NautiDogBrewingCo.]

Hey there, I like the build, started on my own heat stick today, doing something very similar. Did you use JB weld and/or silicone to seal the junction between the heat stick and the L pipe?

And did you use JB weld and/or silicone on the wire connections on the heating element?

I am debating between the two choices, JB weld or silicone, and am not sure that the wire connections need to be coated or not. What do you think?

 

[Epimetheus]

FWIW, I used silicone on the waste pipe threads because if I think the wire connections are not perfect, I want to get in there and fix it. I prefer NO silicone or JB on the wire connections themselves so I KNOW nothing is between the metal-to-metal contact; the junction box (metal waste pipe) should protect it from moisture.

 

[dlaramie08]

I used jb weld on the connections to the element. Also used jb weld where the element connects to the metal pipe. So it is water proof from the outside, but should water/wort get inside the connections are encased. I did not use jb weld where the PVC connects to the metal pipe with the compression fitting as it has a gasket and with my sticks this part is always above liquid line so it only needs to keep out an occasional splash. This gasket is sufficient to do so. I did however keep this area submerged in the waterproof tests, so I know it is waterproof without the jb weld.

 

[dlaramie08]

Here is a pic of the jb weld curing on both sides of the connection

 

[NautiDogBrewingCo.]

awesome. thanks for the input.

i will use JB weld on the element/pipe connection and on the ground wire screw location and silicone to seal the pipe threads.

 

[rdbrett]

I am not electrically inclined. Is there a place where I can go for instructions on this? I'd really like to switch to electric.

 

[dlaramie08]

Google search heat stick build and the first two links are good resources.

Edit: wasn't able to do links earlier.
http://www.3d0g.net/brewing/heatstick
http://www.cedarcreeknetworks.com/heatstick.htm

These are the two I used for reference.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Anyone try one of these?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TRAVEL-COFF...273?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac8174d81

 

[IslandLizard]

Anyone try one of these?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TRAVEL-COFF...273?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac8174d81

Just looked at the link. 1500W is the highest of that portable immersion type I've ever seen. Just for scale, it's 10" long according to the lister.

To make it impervious, I would probably open up the connector housing and fill it with silicone. There is no image of the plug, but most of those "portable" sticks are only 2-prong without ground.

 

[MikeInMKE]

Google search heat stick build and the first two links are good resources.

Edit: wasn't able to do links earlier.
http://www.3d0g.net/brewing/heatstick
http://www.cedarcreeknetworks.com/heatstick.htm

These are the two I used for reference.

That second link belongs to Tom Bardenwerper, claimed inventor of the brewing heat stick, occasional brewing partner, and fellow member of the Trubmeisters homebrew club.

 

[dlaramie08]

That second link belongs to Tom Bardenwerper, claimed inventor of the brewing heat stick, occasional brewing partner, and fellow member of the Trubmeisters homebrew club.

Well if you see him, tell him thanks for the direction as my sticks are beyond successful. I've brewed more in the time I've built these than the past six months.