Heady Topper- Can you clone it?

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bierhaus15 said:
Yep...

I've been getting fresh cans of Heady regularly for a solid year now and I have noticed a big change in the flavor, especially with those produced in the past few months. The last bunch I got in (half case, canned on 7 August), is, dare I say, worlds apart from previous batches. The aroma is pretty similar, although the flavor is much different. Less pineapple and tropical fruit, and more harsh-biting-dank flavor. It also has somewhat of a weak "coffee bean" flavor too, which sounds ridiculous, but we did a side by side tasting with a can from late June and a few people mentioned the same "coffee" flavor in the newer one. With that said, it is still a good beer, just different than before.

Regarding the change, the only thing I can think of, is that they are either using up their old hop stock in preparation for the new crop, or have run out of some varieties and are making substitutions until the new hops come on to the market.
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I don't get heady nearly as often as that, but I noticed THE EXACT SAME THING with my most recent can of heady. First one last year was phenomenal, by far the best DIPA I've ever had. Second one had a pithy grapefruit flavor that detracted from the overall experience. Third, and most recent, was all apollo. Very dank without ANY trace of the pineapple and tropical fruit that used to be in it. Hopefully this is related to a hop shortage and the quality returns after the 2013 crop is harvested.
 
HawksBrewer said:
I don't get heady nearly as often as that, but I noticed THE EXACT SAME THING with my most recent can of heady. First one last year was phenomenal, by far the best DIPA I've ever had. Second one had a pithy grapefruit flavor that detracted from the overall experience. Third, and most recent, was all apollo. Very dank without ANY trace of the pineapple and tropical fruit that used to be in it. Hopefully this is related to a hop shortage and the quality returns after the 2013 crop is harvested.
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Kimmich continues to tweak it, see two months ago BA interview, discussed earlier in this thread.

"I'm still not satisfied 100 percent with Heady. In another year, it's going to be even better".

Question: "Can you tell me what will change?"
Answer: "No. Basically at this point, when you're making one beer like that, the only thing that's going to improve it is ingredients. So it's my goal to be obtaining the very finest hops that I possibly can, and the barley. I'm constantly messing around with dry hopping, what strains I use throughout the batch, what order I use them in, what quantities I use them in, and so it's fun."

That likely plays into it more than him running out of a hop. Sounds like you got a heavy handed Apollo batch. Apollo mellows, sit on that batch for a week or two ice cold in the fridge, should be better. on my last clone, it was very apollo right out of the dry hop, a week into cold conditioning, that receded and more citrus aromas are now noticeable.
 
Yeah, my first heady tasted like opening a pack of pellet hops and drinking it. It was way overpowered. I have another one from a different batch in my fridge. Going to give it a few weeks and then give it a try while harvesting the yeast...
 
I had Heady via a trade in March. I'm having efficiency issues with my system but this tastes spot on from memory! Thanks for all the hard work, Vegan and others!

image.jpg
 
Maltose Express' Heady Topper clone. I call it Heady Flopper because it smells and tastes absolutely nothing like Heady Topper.

image-4053470004.jpg
 
Remmy said:
Maltose Express' Heady Topper clone. I call it Heady Flopper because it smells and tastes absolutely nothing like Heady Topper.
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At least you got a better color out of your's. When I did their heady topper clone kit it came out muuuuuch darker, almost like a red ale.
 
threephase said:
At least you got a better color out of your's. When I did their heady topper clone kit it came out muuuuuch darker, almost like a red ale.
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How'd it taste?

I stopped buying kits from them.
 
Are you maltose kit guys hitting all your numbers? Are you extract? If so are you doing a late addition of extract to prevent over carmelization? I just want to make sure its the kit here and not your process. Mark and tess are great people and do a lot for homebrewers regionally. If their kits are suffering I would be happy to examine one and offer them our critique. I'm not a regular shopper there but I do respect them.

(Sorry not entirely on topic, but it does have to do w a ht clone)
 
NuclearRich said:
Are you maltose kit guys hitting all your numbers? Are you extract? If so are you doing a late addition of extract to prevent over carmelization? I just want to make sure its the kit here and not your process. Mark and tess are great people and do a lot for homebrewers regionally. If their kits are suffering I would be happy to examine one and offer them our critique. I'm not a regular shopper there but I do respect them.

(Sorry not entirely on topic, but it does have to do w a ht clone)
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Mark and Tess ARE awesome people.

I brewed this using grains and DME (w/corn sugar). 9 oz. of hops in total. The end result was not as hop-forward as Heady.

A local HBer gave me some Conan to brew this beer with. But once I found out the Maltose ingredients were nowhere near what is used for Heady, I decided to use EVERYTHING provided by Maltose, even the yeast (Wyeast 1056), so I could judge their clone with all of their ingredients and nothing but. For that reason, I did not deviate from the instructions provided - I brewed it according to Maltose's.

The other issue I have is that Maltose doesn't disclose what is used in each kit. I know they have books that have been published with their recipes, but c'mon.

What I do know is Maltose's Heady Topper clone kit does not contain Caramalt, which gives Heady it's unique flavor...Combine that with a yeast other than Conan and it's not going to come close to Heady. I don't even think they have wheat DME in the kit, either.

I've also brewed two other kits from Maltose - a Sam Smith Imperial Stout and a Sculpin IPA. I'd say the stout was closer to the original beer than the Sculpin. The Sculpin was a really awesome beer - turned out great. However, it was more on the malty side and did not have that burst of grapefruit the real Sculpin has. Nowhere near it.

I love supporting Maltose because it's local. But for the price of most of their kits, I'd rather buy supplies/kits from Austin HBS. I also know exactly what is used in those kits, for a cheaper price.
 
Remmy said:
I brewed this using grains and DME (w/corn sugar). 9 oz. of hops in total. The end result was not as hop-forward as Heady.
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9 oz for 5 gallons? I used 8 oz of hops for 2.5 gallons (I replaced the hop shot with some high AA hop).

Bottling day for me is tomorrow. Then I go on a 3 week vacation (where I will hopefully forget about this) and then I'll have something to look forward to when I come back :)
 
Remmy said:
How'd it taste?

I stopped buying kits from them.
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It tasted like a bitter fairly well balanced IPA, not very fruity. Wasn't bad, had a decent kick. Still have a bottle sitting around somewhere. The real clone I did was much closer even with the diacetyl taste in it..

I can forgive then for the kit not being close, but when the recipe wasn't included that was what really upset me. I'm sure they would give it if asked, but it really should have been with it.
 
threephase said:
I'm sure they would give it if asked, but it really should have been with it.
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Actually, no, they won't give it. That's the problem. The owners won't give it when I asked and they weren't bad about it. But I've asked their staff (one guy in particular who I will not name) about hops in another kit I had purchased prior to the Heady and he was actually a total ********* about it. And he's been a ********* every time I've purchased something there.
 
Remmy said:
Actually, no, they won't give it. That's the problem. The owners won't give it when I asked and they weren't bad about it. But I've asked their staff (one guy in particular who I will not name) about hops in another kit I had purchased prior to the Heady and he was actually a total ********* about it. And he's been a ********* every time I've purchased something there.
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good to know, I avoid buying pellet hops there since I think they don't package them well. Guess I have another reason to shop online; Or try luck and levity in New Haven.
 
Brewbien said:
We will also have some soon. Shooting for the 26th or the 2nd. Lab should be set up this weekend. Ill be plating, selecting and growing colonies next week.

Cheers!
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I'm looking to give this clone a shot (although I might drop the Apollo because from my experience it sucks as a dry hop) and have been looking for some Conan yeast. If it's as good as people say it might become my new default yeast instead of WLP090.
 
I brewed 15 gallons of the most recent recipe last Tuesday (8/20/13) with a couple minor changes. I didn't have hop extract so I used the equivalent amount of Apollo hops for bittering, with just one 90 minute addition. Also, I haven't been able to get a hold of any Conan yeast so I ended up using US-05.

I must have miscalculated my boil-off rate because I hit my target pre-boil gravity and volume exactly, but my OG going into the fermenter was 1.082. I'll definitely have to adjust that for the next batch.

Looks, smells, and tastes a lot like Heady, minus some of the peach/mango notes that I assume are Conan's signature. Attenuated down to 1.012 which seems about right considering it started at 1.082. I'm gonna give it another week or so to settle down before cold crashing it, bringing it back up to temp and starting the dry hop schedule.

Pretty excited to see where it ends up because right now, it's pretty tasty. I'm trying to get a hold of a can of Heady to harvest the yeast, so hopefully I can try the recipe again and get a lot closer to the intended recipe.

Thanks to everyone who's put in so much work to bring this recipe this far. I'm pretty impressed by all the contributions to this thread and to the research. Cheers!
 
doublehaul said:
Tarheel did u ferment at a low temp with the s 05? That is supposed to give some peach flavor
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I have actually had the opposite experience with US-05. Usually above 72 I get some peach esters. But I fermented this one at 68 and let it slowly rise to about 71. Tastes real clean right now, so maybe you're right about lower temps producing peach notes.
 
Tarheel4985 said:
I have actually had the opposite experience with US-05. Usually above 72 I get some peach esters. But I fermented this one at 68 and let it slowly rise to about 71. Tastes real clean right now, so maybe you're right about lower temps producing peach notes.
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Lower temps will toss the slight apricot/peach note. I did a Black IPA with US05 at 52, and got the distinct flavor.
 
This sounds great!! Specialy if its fermented with conan...something tells me it is since its most likely brewed by the alchemist!!

image-233442018.jpg
 
BeerGrylls said:
Confirmed, it's on Rock Art's facebook page. False alarm. Good thing actually, since Alchemist has limited capacity, I'd want them to focus on what we know and love.
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Damn:mad:
Although I don't think a 15bbl batch (30kegs) will throw them so far of course. I do agree they should stick with what they do best.
Would love to see johns special releases that he was talking about though. Once a month brew a small batch for 500 swing tops....now THAT would be awesome.

Derp said:
They recently posted this message on their website concerning future growth:

http://www.alchemistbeer.com/expand-brew-more/
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There goes that thought...lol
 
Hey guys, I have a stupid question for yall. I am going to try a version of your Heady Topper Clone 4.0 tomorrow, but first, I have a question or two. And Forgive me if these have already been asked, I didn't read all 144 pages of this thread.

1. I have 2 hop shots. That's all I need right? Hard to believe that you can get 100+ ibu out of 10ml of hop syrup. But just making sure.
2. when I am doing the hop "steep", can I use a hop bag? Or should I throw those bad boys straight in?

That's all I got for now. Thanks in advance. I have not tried the real Heady Topper, but this recipe looks fun to try. Also, I am going to Vermont in a couple of weeks and I am going by the brewery. So, This will be a fun project.

Thanks again for all the hard work,
J
 
jbone78 said:
Hey guys, I have a stupid question for yall. I am going to try a version of your Heady Topper Clone 4.0 tomorrow, but first, I have a question or two. And Forgive me if these have already been asked, I didn't read all 144 pages of this thread.

1. I have 2 hop shots. That's all I need right? Hard to believe that you can get 100+ ibu out of 10ml of hop syrup. But just making sure.
2. when I am doing the hop "steep", can I use a hop bag? Or should I throw those bad boys straight in?

That's all I got for now. Thanks in advance. I have not tried the real Heady Topper, but this recipe looks fun to try. Also, I am going to Vermont in a couple of weeks and I am going by the brewery. So, This will be a fun project.

Thanks again for all the hard work,
J
Click to expand...

1. Yes. My last batch was amazing using the Northern Brewer Hopshot. Haven't tried Hop Jizz.

2. Throw those bad boys straight in!

I've got some more Conan on the way so I'm going to have to brew this again soon.
 
I'm brewing this right this moment. I'll give your q's a stab.

1) yes 10ml for 90 minutes gives 107 IBUs.
2) you'll get better utilization out of just tossing them right in, but if you have a bag big enough to line the inside of the kettle, that may work.

Best of luck, it's fun to make something so hard to get otherwise, isn't it? Plus conan is like the forbidden fruit.

BG
 
Anyone harvest Conan out of a single can? I made 500mL of 1.020 wort and tossed 'er in 2 days ago. Not sure if there's action or not - there are bubbles on top but not sure if that's just leftover from me shaking it up previously. It's on a stir-plate.

Should I just crash/decant and add to 1L of 1.040 and see what happens?
 
paulster2626 said:
Anyone harvest Conan out of a single can? I made 500mL of 1.020 wort and tossed 'er in 2 days ago. Not sure if there's action or not - there are bubbles on top but not sure if that's just leftover from me shaking it up previously. It's on a stir-plate.

Should I just crash/decant and add to 1L of 1.040 and see what happens?
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I did 400mL of 1.030 from a single can (canned first week of June), on a stir plate. Let it stir for 4/5 days, starter had a krausen. Brewed Sunday and had activity within 12hrs.
 
paulster2626 said:
Anyone harvest Conan out of a single can? I made 500mL of 1.020 wort and tossed 'er in 2 days ago. Not sure if there's action or not - there are bubbles on top but not sure if that's just leftover from me shaking it up previously. It's on a stir-plate.

Should I just crash/decant and add to 1L of 1.040 and see what happens?
Click to expand...

There are several in this thread that started from a single can, including myself. I did a four-step: 130ml @ 1.025, 300ml @ 1.030, 800ml @ 1.035, 1200ml @ 1.045, all with stir plate and a couple days for each and settled/decanted between each step. The last step in my 2l flask cold-crashed to a thick-ish slurry of about 200ml, which should be around the pitchable amount per mrmalty. Make sure to taste the liquid from at least the last step to make sure there aren't any off flavors indicating you had some pathogens or wild yeast.
 
I started with a single can - probably sacrificed 3 ounces - and went straight into 300ml, then to 1000ml, then to 2000ml. I made sure everything was extra clean, and it worked great. I've got vials and vials full now.
 

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