Heady Topper- Can you clone it?

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1fast636 said:
Yea because the haze and cloudy body of the beer is because of the malt and all the hops, looks like my going to my local Wally World and getting some RO water for a clean slate, now since I'm using RO how do you go about the salts and stuff? Trying to nail this water for an amazing turn out of a beer sorry for all the questions
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You should download Bru'n Water and use that.

Here's what I would do with 100% RO water. I do full volume BIAB, so if I was mashing in 7.5 gal, to hit 150 ppm CA and 400 ppm sulfate, I would add 16.7 g gypsum, 5.2 g epsom salt (to supply some of the sulfate so it all wasn't coming from gypsum) and 1.3 g calcium chloride. That will give you a predicted mash pH of 5.34. There are other ways to do it, but that could work. If you play around with Bru'n Water, you will figure it out.
 
I believe the mystery hop we are all missing is Comet. There is likely no Amarillo in Heady Topper.

FATC1TY said:
Comet changed the beer completely. VERY potent hop. Very grapefruity, and dank.. Extremely dank hop when dry hopped with it. Makes Columbus seem tame! Had a semi tart grapefruit and melon aroma and flavor, and maybe a little tangelo in there.
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It has also been stated several times that Kimmich does not boil any hops for Heady Topper. He relies on HopShot for nearly, if not 100% of the IBUs in this beer. So, instead of a hefty 8.50 oz. mixed hops at 5 minutes and 0 minutes, it is likely that Kimmich uses slightly more HopShot, and implements a warm hopstand around 165 F for all of the hopstand hops instead. This temp. is below the 167F myrcene boiloff threshold. Myrcene is that hop compound that offers floral/citrusy/pine.

Lastly, I've never seen a commercial clone or brewed an IIPA whereupon the recipe called for more hopstand hops than dryhops. The dryhop regimen always contains the largest amount of total recipe hops by weight. Pliny, Double Jack, Head Hunter, Tricerahops, Kern Citra, and Alpine all go by this idealogy.

For that reason, I think there is likely 6 to 7 oz. dryhops per 5 gallons beer and only 5 to 6 oz. total hopstand hops per 5 gallon batch.

1.074 / 1.011

86.9% Pearl Malt
4.60% Corn Sugar or Turbinado
4.60% White Wheat
3.90% Caramalt

13-14 ml HopShot @ 90 Minutes (shoot for about 155-170 IBUs)
2.50 oz. Simcoe @ 160 F, 45 Minute Hopstand
1.00 oz. Centennial @ 160 F, 45 Minute Hopstand
0.75 oz. Columbus @ 160 F, 45 Minute Hopstand
0.75 oz. Comet @ 160 F, 45 Minute Hopstand
1.50 oz. Simcoe @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
1.50 oz. Centennial @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
1.50 oz. Columbus @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
1.50 oz. Comet @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
0.50 oz. Apollo @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop

Conan @ 63 F, then ramp up to 68-70 F after ferm slows down/completes.
 
Capn_Bill said:
Can you elaborate one when did this in your process? I have been thinking about this as well for an IPA.



Did you pass it through the hop rocket after fermentation and into your keg, then carbonate? What temperature was the beer when you passed it through the hop rocket?
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Ya..so, I plumbed my hop rocket directly to my keg in between my faucet...so the beer was carbonated properly, pushed from my keg with beer gas, through the lovely hops, and into my glass.

Now...I have used it after a boil before cooling a few times. I usually do a 15-30 min hop stand. From my kettle, to my pump, to my rocket, through my plate chiller, to my co2 flushed fermenter.
 
^mcdole just helped brew a pro beer with conan - his session ale. you might reach out to him to pick his brain about how he works with conan.

im pretty surprised he used conan honestly, considering how much he rails about "clean" ferments. you'd think he'd be cali ale yeast only.

anyhow - if someone reachs out to him and hears back, please post it
 
That profile would be fine. I think any profile where you get the sulfate above 150 ppm and up would make the hops brighter and pop more. As I said, I pushed it up to 400 ppm and saw no ill effects. I'm regularly around 200-300 ppm for my hoppy beers.
 
Brewed it lastnight and hit all my marks, smells amazing and I couldn't resist a small dab of the hop shot on my finger dam that stuff is potent lol, but at the same time still has some nice aroma and flavor, Pitched yeast and waiting for the eruption of fermentation to take off, so excited color is spot on and the aroma is killer
 
Did you use Conan or another yeast?

I lived in Mt. Holly Springs, Carlisle, and Newville in the 80s/90s. Now I'm stuck in the desert.
 
And I would rather be where you are then in the attic freeze we have been in the past few months makes brewing in the garage ruff lol.
 
Fermenting away nicely at 62 can't wait going to dry hop first found in the primary, then transfer over to secondary for 2nd round of dry hops, I harvested a vial of yeast before pitching just for that reason, I'm excited the house is ranking of hops and I love it
 
1fast636 said:
Fermenting away nicely at 62 can't wait going to dry hop first found in the primary, then transfer over to secondary for 2nd round of dry hops, I harvested a vial of yeast before pitching just for that reason, I'm excited the house is ranking of hops and I love it
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Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't the main consensus in this thread to start fermentation at about 66-68 F and then free rise to 70-72 F after fermentation is complete? 62 F seems far too low for Conan.
 
sixxpoint said:
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't the main consensus in this thread to start fermentation at about 66-68 F and then free rise to 70-72 F after fermentation is complete? 62 F seems far too low for Conan.
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The actual temp is 63f, saw the set point on Johns fermenters with my own eyes. Don't know if he is going to get mad at me, oh well will find out at the next family reunion.
 
I just checked again my ambient air temp is 63 so ferm temp is prolly around 65, I have fermented conan ( that I harvested out of a can) pretty low once and it fermented fine. We will see im thinking about getting a sack of pearl and a few pounds of all the hops and just continuously brew this till I nail it we shall see.
 
I can tell you from my experiences that starting this yeast around 62-63 and slowly ramping to 70 by day 7 will yield the best results. I've done it both ways. Starting low always comes out better.
 
KindofBlues71 said:
Why would he care? At the reunion you should hand him your clone and tell him to RDWHAH!
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He keeps his stuff pretty secret. He wouldn't even give me some yeast. I sent him a pic of my clone and got snubbed for 2 months. He still makes great beer, so you got to do what you can to protect that. It's just I'm way outside his market, here in pittsburgh
 
joehoppy said:
I can tell you from my experiences that starting this yeast around 62-63 and slowly ramping to 70 by day 7 will yield the best results. I've done it both ways. Starting low always comes out better.
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Thanks for this. I really appreciate the clarity. I was going to start it out at 67-68 F and that would have probably yielded a lot more Belgian/clovy traits.

62-63 F to start then. Should the wort be a few degrees shy of this target before pitching to account for the heat produced by the fermentation process?
 
Good article. Although I think the results may differ with different yeasts. It would be cool to do this same experiment with a bunch of different strains.
 
For me I think the issue with starting higher is the ability to keep it at that temp. Starting at the preferred fermentation temp tends to get the temp free rising quicker and can quickly get too high.
 
Raising to 70 threw out the day today will check grav and might be dry hopping by end of weekend we shall see
 
Well Gravity was already down to 1.016 so for the last few grav points I threw in the first dry hops and will let it sit for another 4 days with agitating here and there to let the hops get threw the beer. Then will transfer into carboy with 2nd round of dry hops for another 4 days and bottle after. The grav "sample"( let's just say my syphon didn't want to stop) was amazing as all hell best beer I ever brewed and I played around with Brewers friend advanced water and looks like my mash ph was at 5.47 so pretty excited on that too.

Said sample color is pretty good not as bright golden as ht
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1425088145.479707.jpg
 
The man knows what he is doing...looks good. I use a half pound if Munich and the color is very beautiful..
 
Looks like I should beable to do a side by side once mine is bottled as well because some friends just got a case delivered straight from Vermont from one of there friends that where up there skiing. Now I'm even more excited seeing how I had my last can that was prolly a good 3-4 month old at Christmas (and even that old it is still one amazing beer)
 
For the dry hopping schedule the original recipe says to split the dry hopping in half... So take the amount of hops for instance 1 oz Columbus and it's says dry hop 8 days so put in 0.5 oz for 8 days so day 14 add th he half oz and the day 21/22 add the other half and on day 25 keg/bottle? Just want to make sure I am dry hopping this right. Any help appreciated.
 
I disagree with your dry hop schedule...hit it hard and big with your hops in 2..4 day additions a piece. The less grass flavor the better is the key to a great IPA.
 
2 additions split yes wouldn't go 7 days tho, 4 days for first addition then transfer on top of second batch of dry hops for another 4 days
 
I've always dumped them all in at once for 4-5 days. Never had a problem and everyone said it tasted just like HT. I think you may get less flavor if you spread them out. There has to be a saturation point.

Transferring twice to do this may also impact your beer. I have the ability to transfer completely with CO2. Nothing but gas touching the beer, just like the pros do. Most Homebrewers just auto siphon into another carboy that may or may not be O2 free. Also the risk of picking up a bug scares me. I am a firm believer in minimal transfers, and peeks at the krausen make a better beer.

If you listen to Kimmich, he said they dump the pellets in loose. If been to the brewery and tying up 2 fermenters for each batch is very inefficient. He is family, but that doesn't mean he told me any of this. Trust me, I tried!!! As for grain, it's most definitely TF Pearl, TF Caramalt and TF Wheat.
 
I think I'm getting a sack of Pearl and small sacks of the extra grains and 1bs of all the hops used in this and keep brewing it until I perfect it I love heady and being in pa this seems to be my best way to have it always on hand lol so I'll try the all in at one time on the next batch
 
1fast636 said:
I think I'm getting a sack of Pearl and small sacks of the extra grains and 1bs of all the hops used in this and keep brewing it until I perfect it I love heady and being in pa this seems to be my best way to have it always on hand lol so I'll try the all in at one time on the next batch
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I got my Connan from a can, I even asked John for his permission. The yeast is great, I probably have a solid liter of it. I took about 7 months to finish my automated brewery and just pitched it on a brown ale, had a 24hr lag but it's going strong.
 
Yea I built up a nice culture out of some cans a while ago this is my first time using the lab version from omega wouldn't mind trying giga's and seeing if there is a difference between mine omegas and giga's. Has John tried your clone recipe? Is your recipe based off the one on here or yours alittle different?
 
1fast636 said:
Yea I built up a nice culture out of some cans a while ago this is my first time using the lab version from omega wouldn't mind trying giga's and seeing if there is a difference between mine omegas and giga's. Has John tried your clone recipe? Is your recipe based off the one on here or yours alittle different?
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Next trip out I will take some, don't want to insult him, but it is what it is.
 

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