Heady Topper- Can you clone it?

[roncruiser]

This morning, racked to secondary for dry hopping. Tucked in at a cozy 68F.

 

[bdolce]

Kimmich cellars HT for 14 days at 39F. However, I don't know if that means that the dry hop begins at the lowered temp or not.

Didn't Kimmich also say in the Chop and Brew video that time from brew day to finish was 21 days? If so, it is likely dry hopping is being done at lower temps.

 

[kevink]

Kimmich cellars HT for 14 days at 39F. However, I don't know if that means that the dry hop begins at the lowered temp or not.

What's your source for that?

 

[roncruiser]

Didn't Kimmich also say in the Chop and Brew video that time from brew day to finish was 21 days? If so, it is likely dry hopping is being done at lower temps.

https://youtu.be/LdfySDN2mF0

 

[Brewizard]

I just drank a can of Heady Topper. I think you should be dry hopping with Simcoe only. Use 4 once per 5 gallon.

 

[roncruiser]

I just drank a can of Heady Topper. I think you should be dry hopping with Simcoe only. Use 4 once per 5 gallon.

Are you really John Kimmich? Fess up.

 

[Brewizard]

Are you really John Kimmich? Fess up.

Nope, Stowe is a 4-1/2 hour drive from where I live. To me the Simcoe really hits you in the face when you open the can. Really dank and no other hop comes close. I might do a beer run next year when the new brewery opens.

 

[chato]

What's your source for that?

It's a valid source.

 

[bdolce]

https://youtu.be/amgfgU5-lhs

In the above video, Kimmich states HT is 28 days old when it is released. I assumed it must condition in the can for some period of time (meaning brew to can was about 3 to 3.5 weeks), but maybe not. At max, he clearly states 28 days till release in this video.

Cheers,
Ben

 

[Brewizard]

Kimmich cellars HT for 14 days at 39F. However, I don't know if that means that the dry hop begins at the lowered temp or not.

Aaaaah, that actually makes sense. Definitely does not dry hop at this temperature as this would occur on days 10 to 14. It is then cold conditioned for two weeks. 28 days total.

 

[1fast636]

So basically 10 day fermentation, with a big 4 day dry hop, then cold conditioned for 14 days,and they are canning on day 28 last day of the 14 day cold condition.

Wonder if he ever thought his interviews would get dissected like we are doing to them lol

 

[MadHomebrewer]

So basically 10 day fermentation, with a big 4 day dry hop, then cold conditioned for 14 days,and they are canning on day 28 last day of the 14 day cold condition.

Wonder if he ever thought his interviews would get dissected like we are doing to them lol

I would think they would can after the dry hop. Let it cold condition in the cans then ship them out. Did you see something saying they can on day 28?

 

[roncruiser]

Let's break it down and compile this information by the following in days:

Fermentation: days?
Dry Hop : 4-5 days
Condition : days?

https://youtu.be/LdfySDN2mF0
Time 43:17: Ph 5.1-5.3 (Taken at mash temp.)
Time:1:01:39: 4-5 days dry hopping
Time:1:01:55: All pellets used. No whole hops.
Time:1:02:21: Does not boil hops. Co2 bittering extract only.

Video notes :
Cans released on 28th day.
Proprietary dry hopping techniques.
During whirlpool, liquid is not pumped. The sheer of the impeller affects the hop oil as it goes through.
Liquid is moved with gas.


Confirmed Ph was taken at mash temp. Stated here:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=6061974&postcount=55

Kimmich also points out the beer is moved by gas. He mentions the shear of a pump impeller affects the delicate hop oils.

 

[carvetop]

I'm fairly certain that they can on Mondays and they're out the door immediately after. No time spent conditioning in the can.

 

[roncruiser]

I'd say hop the heck out of it during the dry hopping stages.

Bobbrews recipe suggests 2 stages over 8 days because we simply don't have the same dry hopping techniques as The Alchemist. Obviously.

I truly believe the dry hopping schedule is still open for interpretation. If anything, dry hop bigger.

 

[bdolce]

Let's break it down and compile this information by the following in days:

Fermentation: days?
Dry Hop : 4-5 days
Condition : days?

https://youtu.be/LdfySDN2mF0
Time 43:17: Ph 5.1-5.3
Time:1:01:39: 4-5 days dry hopping
Time:1:01:55: All pellets used. No whole hops.
Time:1:02:21: Does not boil hops. Co2 bittering extract only.

Video notes :
Cans released on 28th day.
Proprietary dry hopping techniques.
During whirlpool, liquid is not pumped. The sheer of the impeller affects the hop oil as it goes through.
Liquid is moved with gas.

I want to point out it was confirmed later that his comments about pH were at mash temps. This was discussed earlier in this thread. I will look and see if I can find the comment number or quote it.

 

[bdolce]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=465320

See above thread, it is believed that Kimmich was referring to mash temperature ph, not room temperature pH which is what we usually talk about.

 

[bdolce]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=477834&page=6

This thread looked into the 750 ppm hardness quote from Kimmich and if you use the info combined with the suspected malt bill, you get a mash pH of 5.4 if you plug it into Brun water or similar water calculation sheet. I found the same thing when I entered the formula into Beersmith and Brun water. Measured pH of mash on brew day with pH meter was 5.0, or 5.3 room temp.

 

[drbrewer]

just started following this thread and was wondering if anyone has used The Yeast Bays Vermont Ale yeast for this recipe?

 

[roncruiser]

I want to point out it was confirmed later that his comments about pH were at mash temps. This was discussed earlier in this thread. I will look and see if I can find the comment number or quote it.

Thanks. Documented that in my summary post.

 

[roncruiser]

just started following this thread and was wondering if anyone has used The Yeast Bays Vermont Ale yeast for this recipe?

I've attempted 4 HT clones. All using The Yeast Bays Vermont Ale yeast.

 

[chato]

I was watching the Chop & Brew video and what caught my attention was when they asked John Kimmich about Conan. His answer got into how many generations they use. I believe he says that after 10 generations "we buy more". That could mean someone is banking it for him, or it could mean that Conan is a standard strain. And then in the next sentence he goes on talking about "other British yeasts from Wyeast". This to me really backs up the rumor that Conan is actually London Ale III. I've used Conan cultured from a can, Omega's Conan strain, and London Ale III, and I have to say, they are all very similar.

 

[carvetop]

I was watching the Chop & Brew video and what caught my attention was when they asked John Kimmich about Conan. His answer got into how many generations they use. I believe he says that after 10 generations "we buy more". That could mean someone is banking it for him, or it could mean that Conan is a standard strain. And then in the next sentence he goes on talking about "other British yeasts from Wyeast". This to me really backs up the rumor that Conan is actually London Ale III. I've used Conan cultured from a can, Omega's Conan strain, and London Ale III, and I have to say, they are all very similar.

They are very similar. Regardless, Wyeast does maintain the Alchemist's "private yeast strain."

 

[sweetcell]

That could mean someone is banking it for him, or it could mean that Conan is a standard strain.

it means someone is banking it for him.

 

[youreanimpulse]

I've used Gigayeast Conan, Yeast Bay Conan and Conan grown at home from a can. All behaved basically the same. I use London Ale III all the time and it behaves quite differently and the character isn't all that similar IMO. I have liked it better so far, although I'm trying the Imperial Barbarian now, so back to Conan.

 

[Braufessor]

I've used Gigayeast Conan, Yeast Bay Conan and Conan grown at home from a can. All behaved basically the same. I use London Ale III all the time and it behaves quite differently and the character isn't all that similar IMO. I have liked it better so far, although I'm trying the Imperial Barbarian now, so back to Conan.

I agree - I have found little to no difference in cultured Conan from a can and Gigayeast Conan. I also agree that there is a fairly significant difference to London Ale III...... Flocculation for sure for starters. London Ale III stays in suspension forever.

 

[ianmatth]

It's a valid source.

:beard:

Are you really John Kimmich? Fess up.

This is the guy you should be asking that to with his mysterious sources.

 

[ultravista]

So what temperature does John K. dry hop?

 

[Trillium]

VPB-1188 aka Conan yeast was originally brought back from the UK by the late Greg Noonan. He used the yeast at the Vermont Brew Pub. When John Kimmich started the Alchemist, he got permission from Greg to use the yeast.

Start the fermentation at 68deg and raise by one deg per day until you hit 72 deg and then let it finish. A lot of the fruity character in Heady comes from Conan.

 

[roncruiser]

VPB-1188 aka Conan yeast was originally brought back from the UK by the late Greg Noonan. He used the yeast at the Vermont Brew Pub. When John Kimmich started the Alchemist, he got permission from Greg to use the yeast.

Start the fermentation at 68deg and raise by one deg per day until you hit 72 deg and then let it finish. A lot of the fruity character in Heady comes from Conan.

Lots of conflicting statements for starting fermentation temp. I'll try starting at 68F ending with 72F with the next batch. Prior I've started with 64F ending with 70F.