I personally think that the "secret sauce" is the combinations of techniques used, but the mother sauce is the hop combo. They really are the first step. The lack of availability makes this very hard to pick apart and experiment with
Heady Topper- Can you clone it?
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I personally think that the "secret sauce" is the combinations of techniques used, but the mother sauce is the hop combo. They really are the first step. The lack of availability makes this very hard to pick apart and experiment with
rideincircles
Well-Known Member
I ordered all my ingredients for my batch from farmhouse so I will see if I can brew my version next week (LHBS did not have the malts in stock). I plan on splitting a 10 gallon batch into 2 batches and will probably go with Bobbrews hop schedule for the first one, then change up the hop structure on the 2nd one. I may make the 2nd one more fruity, but will decide on that as it gets closer. I have lots of simcoe, citra, centennial, apollo, comet, mosaic, ctz, el dorado, cascade, chinook, and ahtanum to choose from.
Still figuring out my water plan before getting there. I have not added anything other than gypsum to brewing, and am debating on tap water or half tap/RO. Will start plugging stuff into the calculator to see where I wind up. I still have not tried Heady, so no clue how it will compare.
I may dry hop one cold also to see how they differ.
Still figuring out my water plan before getting there. I have not added anything other than gypsum to brewing, and am debating on tap water or half tap/RO. Will start plugging stuff into the calculator to see where I wind up. I still have not tried Heady, so no clue how it will compare.
I may dry hop one cold also to see how they differ.
rideincircles
Well-Known Member
I lucked out over the weekend and came across a can of Heady on Friday at a local beer store (beer guy had a case delivered to Texas, uncertain exactly how and I mentioned I am brewing a clone and was gifted a can in return for some homebrew which will be a 6-pack plus some of the clone when it's ready.) Now I am prepared for what I am getting into. Dank is the going theme with Heady for certain. It did not seem as cloudy as I was expecting, and I was told it was a week old, but can't confirm.
My ingredients arrive tonight and I will be looking more into the water chemistry and how I plan to build this one up. I started a small starter for cultivating Heady yeast from the can, but since I have not done that much, I probably shouldn't have drank it from the can. Will see if it turns out, it is just 150ml of 1.020 liquid. If it is contaminated, I will just use the Gigayeast instead. On that note, my pale ale tastes like Peaches with all the fruity hops I used in it. I have taken fruityness about as far I can go in a pale ale and need to turn up the dank in my next few brews. I approve of Conan so far.
My ingredients arrive tonight and I will be looking more into the water chemistry and how I plan to build this one up. I started a small starter for cultivating Heady yeast from the can, but since I have not done that much, I probably shouldn't have drank it from the can. Will see if it turns out, it is just 150ml of 1.020 liquid. If it is contaminated, I will just use the Gigayeast instead. On that note, my pale ale tastes like Peaches with all the fruity hops I used in it. I have taken fruityness about as far I can go in a pale ale and need to turn up the dank in my next few brews. I approve of Conan so far.
rideincircles
Well-Known Member
I lucked out over the weekend and came across a can of Heady on Friday at a local beer store (beer guy had a case delivered to Texas, uncertain exactly how and I mentioned I am brewing a clone and was gifted a can in return for some homebrew which will be a 6-pack plus some of the clone when it's ready.) Now I am prepared for what I am getting into. Dank is the going theme with Heady for certain. It did not seem as cloudy as I was expecting, and I was told it was a week old, but can't confirm.
My ingredients arrive tonight and I will be looking more into the water chemistry and how I plan to build this one up. I started a small starter for cultivating Heady yeast from the can, but since I have not done that much, I probably shouldn't have drank it from the can. Will see if it turns out okay, it is just 150ml of 1.020 liquid. If it is contaminated, I will just use the Gigayeast instead. On that note, my pale ale tastes like Peaches with all the fruity hops I used in it (20 minute extract pale with 4 hops and 30 minute hop stand, started at 62 for 3 days, had to use ferment chamber for a bock so let it hit 68 for a few days in the closet, and crept all the way up to 76 or so near the 2 week mark and dryhopped with 6 hops in primary and then cold crashed at 50 for 2 days). I have taken fruityness about as far I can go in a pale ale and need to turn up the dank in my next few brews. I approve of Conan so far.
My ingredients arrive tonight and I will be looking more into the water chemistry and how I plan to build this one up. I started a small starter for cultivating Heady yeast from the can, but since I have not done that much, I probably shouldn't have drank it from the can. Will see if it turns out okay, it is just 150ml of 1.020 liquid. If it is contaminated, I will just use the Gigayeast instead. On that note, my pale ale tastes like Peaches with all the fruity hops I used in it (20 minute extract pale with 4 hops and 30 minute hop stand, started at 62 for 3 days, had to use ferment chamber for a bock so let it hit 68 for a few days in the closet, and crept all the way up to 76 or so near the 2 week mark and dryhopped with 6 hops in primary and then cold crashed at 50 for 2 days). I have taken fruityness about as far I can go in a pale ale and need to turn up the dank in my next few brews. I approve of Conan so far.
what did you do to the pale to make it so peachy?
If you drank the whole beer from the can, and then at the end, poured the last bit into a flask...... I would say there is a 100% chance your starter is significantly infected.
In the future, definitely want to sanitize the can in star san before opening. Pour off 80-90% of the beer in a glass. Then swirl up the dregs in the bottom of bottle or can and then pour it into an already sanitized beaker that contains your sanitary starter wort.
Then, drink beer from glass
from wikipedia: "Oral bacteria include streptococci, lactobacilli, staphylococci, corynebacteria, and various anaerobes in particular bacteroides."
our mouths are filthy (even when we keep our stronger opinions to ourselves
).
rideincircles
Well-Known Member
That was a big oops on my part. Trying to drink heady the proper way out of a can along with salvaging the yeast is not compatible. I have Gigayeast to hold me over, but will still see if turns out okay since the starter is already going. May just observe then dump it. I understand the concerns and recently had my first infection from knocking a bung off for a few days. Not taking any chances for ruining 6-12 gallons.
My pale ale definitely pulled the peach flavor from the yeast, but used Eldorado, citra, mosaic, comet and a few other hops to get the fruity flavors. I think I added ahtanum, simcoe, motueka, and cascade to the dry hop. Need to double check later. Mostly fruity hops. Expect that even bigger for my fruity Heady coming up, but will still add some dank qualities.
My pale ale definitely pulled the peach flavor from the yeast, but used Eldorado, citra, mosaic, comet and a few other hops to get the fruity flavors. I think I added ahtanum, simcoe, motueka, and cascade to the dry hop. Need to double check later. Mostly fruity hops. Expect that even bigger for my fruity Heady coming up, but will still add some dank qualities.
No worries on using the gigayeast....... I get 4-12 cans of Heady every couple months, and have made many cultures. They are not any better/worse than using a commercial version like Gigayeast. I tend to culture it up more as a novelty anymore as the Gigayeast is way faster and easier...... and results in the same beer from my experience.
reddskinnfan
Well-Known Member
My recipe (use search) is as close as it gets. Good luck!
Really? This thread is many posts long and spans years and you want us to search for your recipe...maybe post a link cause the only one I found doesn't look like heady
roncruiser
Well-Known Member
I'm sure your version is very good and probably close, but there would have to be a consensus to say it's the closest one.
roncruiser
Well-Known Member
reddskinnfan, what would you change about it? How many time have you brewed it?
I give this recipe kudos simply for posting the water profile. Looks like some good stuff. I wouldn't mind giving this recipe a try given more information on how you'd improve on it.
Tasting notes?
Improvements?
Pre-boil volume?
Volume into primary fermentation for the recipe above?
Dry hop schedule?
Is the water profile, above, before adding in the 8 grams of gypusm?
reddskinnfan
Well-Known Member
Tasting - Piney grapefruit with some peach notes.
Improvements - splitting flameout for a little more aroma kick. One right at flameout and another 30 mins in. Get sulfate up to about 200-250ppm.
Volumes, I think. Will verify by BS file when home - Pre-boil would have been right at 14g. Post-boil 11.5g. Volume into fermenter 10.5.
Dry hop was half at beginning and half at day 4. Total 7 days.
I think water profile was with gypsum, split between mash and sparge, but can check.
reddskinnfan
Well-Known Member
By the way, the only way to build consensus is for others to try the recipe. Clearly the one out there hasn't been cloned, as folks have been pointing out. I had the pleasure of trying heady, with mine, right after each other. The only big difference I saw was perceived bitterness, which I attribute to a little bit low on Sulfate.
reddskinnfan
Well-Known Member
It took me one sec to search for the recipe using search this thread tool. Secondly, I read a ton of the info in this thread myself, and info from other sites before building my recipe.
Do yourself a favor and spend some time learning (reading), and then brewing, before passing judgement on what Heady "looks like." Pretty sure the Alchemist is the only one who knows the real recipe...
roncruiser
Well-Known Member
Yes, I'll give your recipe a try. That's some good stuff there. Especially, since you did a side-by-side. I'm gonna try it as soon as I have some free time.
Gonna pick your brain a little bit more before my attempt. Thanks!
@roncruiser thanks for posting the recipe. I'm on mobile and what I found was not the above...hence the request for the link. Anyways sorry if I came across as being rude, but your post came across very arrogant and demeaning too. This thread is for everyone to get as close to Heady as possible and it would have been nice if you had just taken the two seconds to paste the info in this thread
reddskinnfan
Well-Known Member
Just like you, I was on mobile during that, and most of my, post(s). That's why I said search.
roncruiser
Well-Known Member
Yes, please verify volumes for pre-boil, post-boil and batch size.
On your 3L starter... did you start from a single vial? Was your starter stepped up? You'd end up with more yeast cells through stepping, or is a single volume 3L starter good enough?
Your fermentation temperature profile? How many days at each temp? What temp did you start off with? What did you end with?
The last couple clone attempts, I had trouble hitting the final 2-3 gravity points. I'm not sure if it was the fermentation temp profile, or the amount of yeast I used. Maybe a combination of both. Any pointers would be very beneficial.
Thanks again... Ron
reddskinnfan
Well-Known Member
12.7g pre-boil. 11.2g post-boil. 10.5g to fermenter. Final volume 10g.
Gypsum was split at 5.4g in mash water and 2.7g in sparge.
3L starter was stepped. 2L fermented/decanted and then 3L fermented/decanted. I started fermentation at 66 and raised to 72 after it dropped to about 1.020 to help it finish.
Efficiency - 77%
Mash-In - 10.25g @ 148F for 75m, then drain.
Sparge - 6.5g @ 168F for 10m, then drain.
Notes:
Whirlpool hops added 5 minutes after flameout. I let naturally drop to 165F and kept there for 30.
*** Like I said, I would split the whirlpool hops; adding half at, or 5 mins after, flameout. The other half once down to 165F.
Looks like a good beer.... I hope to get at this version sometime in the next 2-3 weeks. I agree that the other versions do not make a "Heady Clone" so I am eager to try something new.
Regardless of how it compares to Heady at the end, looks like a great IPA at worst, and something closer to Heady at best...... so, win-win.
Thanks for posting the details
roncruiser
Well-Known Member
This is all good information. The devil is in the details, so...
-Did you dry hop in primary, or move to a keg for dry hopping?
-What was the dry hop temp?
-You'd still recommend the Optic over Pearl for a clone, or your clone?
Thanks for the time...
reddskinnfan
Well-Known Member
I liked the Optic. In fact, I had never tried it before this clone and ended up buying 3 bags because of it (used in a Wit, another IPA and a Porter, so far).
I dry hopped in the serving kegs at room temp (around 70F in my house) with dry hop tubes from www.stainlessbrewing.com.
After day 7, they went on CO2 I'm the keezer for a week at 20PSI and then dropped to 10PSI for serving.
I dry hopped in the serving kegs at room temp (around 70F in my house) with dry hop tubes from www.stainlessbrewing.com.
After day 7, they went on CO2 I'm the keezer for a week at 20PSI and then dropped to 10PSI for serving.
Nice recipe, similar to bobbrews with the no hops in the boil approach. I imagine it would have really been there with more gypsum. I also like that this recipe shows you don't have to be so exacting with the malt and hops. I've used a combination of Golden Promise and 2-row and I usually replaced Amarillo with Citra and El Dorado. I thought that Optic might work and I imagine a mix of Marris Otter and 2-row would also work. And in reference to a previous post of someone thinking figuring out the exact hops The Alchemist uses will get the clone right, I 100% disagree. In fact I doubt Heady has always used the exact same hops due to hop supply issues in the industry. I think the right mix of Simcoe, dank, and fruity hops will get it there. Looks like it's about a good British malt backbone, lots of hop oil up front, the right post boil hop combination, and the right dry hop combination.
Two last questions, what temperature did you ferment at and how much yeast did you pitch? I recently saw something that said the Alchemist pitches on the low side. I have been pitching on the high, but I may change that.
Two last questions, what temperature did you ferment at and how much yeast did you pitch? I recently saw something that said the Alchemist pitches on the low side. I have been pitching on the high, but I may change that.
reddskinnfan
Well-Known Member
Ferment was 66F until 1.020, then 72F to finish out.
I pitched a double-stepped 3L Conan batch (decanted, of course).
I pitched a double-stepped 3L Conan batch (decanted, of course).
ultravista
Well-Known Member
Besides drawing-off wort from the kettle to mix in with the hop shots, what other tips/tricks are there for making this a successful brew?
reddskinnfan
Well-Known Member
I put my hopshot straight into the boil.
brewski09
Well-Known Member
Maybe I missed something but I've only seen people adding hptshot straight to the wort and that's what we did too. What does drawing off to mix the hop shot do?
