Having Frequent Problems with Overcarbed Bottles...

[ViperMan]

I found a partial case of beer buried in the back of our living room over the weekend. When I uncovered it, I discovered a shattered bottle. I realized quickly that it still had a cap, and - most oddly, I couldn't find any hint of beer!

On a whim though, I chilled the other bottles in the case (of the same beer) and opened them tonight. They were MAJOR gushers...

I've been having this problem a lot. Having recently joined a local brewing club (Pittsburgh TRUB club!) I've been bringing in a lot of homebrew to share. Almost every bottle I've opened has foamed or spewed over the past few months, and it's starting to piss me off...

In MANY cases, I've let the beer sit with an inactive airlock for SEVERAL days after fermentation. A lot of them have had additions in secondary - apples for one, hazelnut extract in another, strawberry preserves in the one that burst... But I've still let the beer sit for a while after the airlock quit hopping.

(Sidebar - I recently purchased a refractometer and have been modifying my airlocks so that I can pop the cap and slip my 1ml ultra-thin glass pipette through the airlock to grab samples, allowing me to start grabbing multiple samples like I SHOULD be instead of relying on the airlock as my guide...)

I read an article recently about diacetyl, and how not letting the yeast grab the rest of the diacetyl can somehow lead to overcarbonation later in the beer's life, but honestly I didn't memorize the article and now I can't find it.

Also, I know that a lot of the beers I made last year were slightly underpitched and VERY poorly oxygenated. This year I've purchased a oxygenation kit and O2 tank. I also plan on getting a stir plate and making some much better starters. Lastly with my new refractometer, I should be able to make sure that fermentation is complete.

The weird thing about the bottle that popped is that I served a bottle over Christmas and it was great. I brewed the beer back in September or so - I'd think it would have been a gusher by end-of December. So I'm really puzzled. It COULD have been an infection, but the beer doesn't taste very thin (it was a pale ale already), and most of the batch that was already consumed was delicious.

Anyways, sorry for rambling. The question is, besides bottling before fermentation is done and infection, what else can cause overcarbonation?

Thanks folks. Happy Brewing.

 

[BuckSwope]

The other culprit would be overuse of priming sugar. Do you use a calculator to determine how much carb you want for each style you brew? If you're using the old "ounce of sugar a gallon" that all of us as beginners were hammered on by instructional kits, and are certain that a) it's done fermenting and b) you cleaned/sanitized everything, chances are your problem lies with priming.

 

[hotspurdotus]

Hey Viperman, a few questions:

• What are you using to prime your bottles? Corn Sugar?
• What temperature do your ferment and bottle at? What's the warmest your beer is at any point after fermentation?

I suggest using a calculator like this one to determine how much priming sugar to use. Temperature has a bigger effect than you might think.

 

[BuckSwope]

Never knew that NB has a priming calc. I've always used Tasty Brew, but I like NB's suggestions for carb levels much better! Thanks dude

 

[flars]

You don't mention the use of a hydrometer to determine a completed fermentaton. Using the inactivity of an airlock to say fermentation is done doesn't work. I suspect your beer completed fermentation in the bottle.

 

[ViperMan]

Flars:

You're right: because I don't.

I hated how much beer I had to waste taking samples, so I just didn't. I even stopped recording FG altogether. No excuse, I just got lazy. Thus the fancy pipette, refractometer, modified airlocks, and "Brix Calc" iTunes app...

I use corn sugar, adjust carbonation based on beer style, and DO use either Beersmith or Northern Brewers website to determine how much corn sugar to use. And with a scale that does .005 ounce increments, I think we can rule out too much priming sugar.

(Thanks though - I didn't mention my bottle-carbing techniques in my original post. I plan on force-carbing more this year, and just ordered my Beer Gun today!)

 

[flars]

Flars:

You're right: because I don't.

I hated how much beer I had to waste taking samples, so I just didn't. I even stopped recording FG altogether. No excuse, I just got lazy. Thus the fancy pipette, refractometer, modified airlocks, and "Brix Calc" iTunes app...

I use corn sugar, adjust carbonation based on beer style, and DO use either Beersmith or Northern Brewers website to determine how much corn sugar to use. And with a scale that does .005 ounce increments, I think we can rule out too much priming sugar.

(Thanks though - I didn't mention my bottle-carbing techniques in my original post. I plan on force-carbing more this year, and just ordered my Beer Gun today!)

I can understand that. I've seen some of the sample jars being sold. Looks like some take half a bottle of beer to float a hydrometer.
I use the tube the hydrometer came in. Poured in a glass after the reading it's about two small mouthfuls. Just enough to taste how the beer is coming along.
I take no more than three samples to establish FG.

 

[butterpants]

Refractometers don't read correctly in the presence of alcohol... well out of the box and without extra math and knowing OG. If you were using it to determine FG and the halting of fermentation your numbers are skewed. Just use a triple scale hydrometer or even better a finishing hydrometer. Once your readings are stable for a few days, it should be done.


You could always sanatize the sample vessel and hydro then pour it back in....


Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Home Brew mobile app

 

[passedpawn]

Yea, like mr. butterpants above said, that refractometer might not be the answer to your prayers. I only use mine during the boil. I consider them useless once the yeast is added. And yes, I know there are corrections to make them work... but they still don't.

Your gushers might be caused by infection, and they might be caused by bottling before fermentation was complete. Hard to say. I used to have the same gusher problems occasionally. Occasionally, I'd have an entire batch that was fine for a few weeks, but then turned into gushers. Must have been infections from somewhere. Kegging has made those problems go away for me.

 

[ArcticBrewer]

You could always sanatize the sample vessel and hydro then pour it back in....

Or invest in a wine thief! That way you can check the gravity and sample as much (or as little) as you'd like before returning the rest to the fermenter.

 

[longhornbarrett]

Like it has already been mentioned refractometers don't read correctly when there is alcohol present, use a hydrometer

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[seph]

My trick for measuring my FG without wasting beer is to sanitize the hydrometer, and drop it into the bucket. Easy to get a good FG reading without wasting a drop.

Well, maybe a drop.

 

[ViperMan]

I know they don't read correctly with alcohol, but they should still show different readings if fermentation isn't finished. And I've always known the OG - it's the FG I was never measuring. I'm not ready to give up on the refractometer so quickly - I've really been hoping this new tool would make me a little less lazy by being a little easier and less messy.

I have a Bock that I'm pretty sure is finished - pitched a bajillion cells, oxygenated, used yeast nutrient... Fermentation was extremely active for a lager. Within 8 days there was no more visible activity. I took a reading (with the refractometer) yesterday and will check again over the next two days. If I don't get any change, I'm going to then take a hydrometer reading to see if it reads what all the software I'm using says I should have based on the refractometer readings. If they're off by any more than a few points, I'll have to go back to the drawing board.

I looked at wine thiefs, but still never felt comfortable dumping the sample back in, plus it STILL requires taking out the airlock, taking off the lid - too many chances to let bad things inside...

I notice however that besides fermentation not being finished or possible infection, no one has suggested other possible causes. I was wondering if leaving the beer on the yeast too long was causing problems, or maybe pitching too warm...

Thanks for the replies.

 

[deadfall]

I had a few batches do this. Usually months down the road. It mostly happened in the extract batches I made. I do my best to pitch better now and oxygenate. Haven't had it happen in a long time. I use a hydrometer. I don't really think I'd trust a refractometer. I do a long primary at least 30days or longer. Don't be afraid to waste a little beer. Bottle bombs are scary.

 

[butterpants]

I notice however that besides fermentation not being finished or possible infection, no one has suggested other possible causes. I was wondering if leaving the beer on the yeast too long was causing problems, or maybe pitching too warm...

Thanks for the replies.

The only possible other explanation is a priming sugar fubar. Not mixed up enough, improper amounts.

Given your improper use of the instruments used I just think most of us guessed it was a fermentation not finished deal.

You've got your 3 possible causes. If you really want to know what did it, isolate variables and only fix one thing talked about this thread per batch. When it gets fixed, there you have it. If you're more pragmatic or just impatient (like me) and don't want to waste delicious brew, revamp your sanitation practices, buy a finishing hydrometer n wine theif and always weigh out your priming sugar amounts then dissolve them in boiled water and add to the bottom of a bottling bucket.


Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Home Brew mobile app

 

[ViperMan]

Well - I guess that's good to know overall; that it's not some other funky step I need to perform.

I was looking at wine thiefs a few weeks ago, and all I could find were cheapy plastic kinds that crack and scratch and become hard to read pretty quickly. Can anyone point me towards a good one?

 

[xjedifishx]

Newb here.... I've noticed some different ways throughout the post for FG test with the hydrometer. Best practice? Leave the lid and siphon a sample or take it off and drop it in? Sorry for the off topic Q.

 

[BuckSwope]

Newb here.... I've noticed some different ways throughout the post for FG test with the hydrometer. Best practice? Leave the lid and siphon a sample or take it off and drop it in? Sorry for the off topic Q.

Either way is cool as long as you're anal about making sure everything is properly sanitized

 

[ViperMan]

I don't like taking the lid off, because then you have to put it somewhere. You also have to remove at least the guts of the airlock since removing the lid creates vacuum and sucks all your liquid from the airlock into your beer. So then you're trying to find a clean place to put your airlock, lid, hydrometer, and thief (or other extraction equipment which for me was a Pyrex measuring cup and the hydrometer tube) all just so you can grab a measurement. And if you're in the garage (with a lager) in Western PA where every surface is covered with salt dust, it becomes a process you'd rather just completely avoid.

For the past week, all I've had to do is carry out my old hydrometer tube - now filled with sanitizer solution and my pipette - and my refractometer, pop the cap off the airlock and fish the inner cup out (a crab-meat picker has served this purpose for 3 years now...) slip the pipette in, draw out a sample, put a drop on the lens, taste the rest, replace the cup and cap, and I'm done.

And now everyone is telling me "you shouldn't do that" and I kinda wanna punch a puppy...

/rant

 

[butterpants]

I use a 3 piece plastic wine thief. Sanitize that sucker good (usually dishwasher cycle then soak in starsan). Open fermenter lid and fill a 100ml graduated cyl via thief. Drop in my hydrometer of choice (I only use triple scale and finishing ones). I either taste that sample or discard it. Making 5-10 gallons at once, 100ml really isn't a big deal. I'd be tempted to sanitize the cyl and toss it back only making 1gal batches tho.

No puppy punching necessary.

 

[ViperMan]

I use a 3 piece plastic wine thief. Sanitize that sucker good (usually dishwasher cycle then soak in starsan). Open fermenter lid and fill a 100ml graduated cyl via thief. Drop in my hydrometer of choice (I only use triple scale and finishing ones). I either taste that sample or discard it. Making 5-10 gallons at once, 100ml really isn't a big deal. I'd be tempted to sanitize the cyl and toss it back only making 1gal batches tho.

No puppy punching necessary.

I'm thinking about getting the 18" stainless steel "turkey baster" from Williams Brewing (Amazon sells it as well). The only thing I'm trying to find is the tightest diameter cylinder I can find so as to minimize "waste." Problem is, I DO brew 1.5 gallon batches frequently to test recipes - and it's been a lot of those small batches that have become gushers.

 

[ViperMan]

I found the article I had stumbled on before.

http://byo.com/stories/item/303-brewing-science-controlling-diacetyl

Paragraph towards the end: "Caused by Contamination" - mentions how bottled beers can "develop pressure" due to contamination. I still have to wonder if this is where I'm going wrong - possibly not sanitizing my bottles as well as I used to.

I'm definitely going to be more diligent in making sure fermentation is complete (while also taking steps to make sure fermentation happens faster), but I'm also going to be sure to clean my bottles really well this year.

 

[IkeKrizzule]

I've had similar issues with overcarbing, especially at beer club. I've decided it may be a couple issues.

1. I use a priming calculator but I think sometimes I slightly overestimate the amount of beer I'll get in my bottle bucket due to true loss.

2. Sometimes I don't give my beer enough fridge time before taking them to meetings. They are fine at home but after a car ride to meetings and maybe an hour or 2 to warm it gives the co2 time to get out of the beer.

 

[butterpants]

Bottle sanitation is huge

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[fartinmartin]

Just read all the posts, getting stuck on three points-
The proposal to return the sample to the brew is a no no !
I use .8oz per gallon cane sugar, boiled, cooled, and make sure it's swirled into the whole brew.
I am amazed how so often the refractometer/hydrometer dispute keeps coming out, I brewed yesterday, my OG with hydrometer 1.052, refractometer 1.054 that's good enough for me. My last brew FGs the Brix reading put into the calculator also agreed. The SG reading from the refractometer is useless it's the Brix number that has to be used, then calculated to get the SG .
Samples taken through the airlock hole, I find the refractometer a fantastic tool from grain to bottle.

 

[fartinmartin]

Don't get messed up with US or Imperial gallons, most of my sources of info are US gallon (even though I'm in UK).

 

[ViperMan]

Just an update here - I picked up a nice finishing hydrometer and a smaller test tube and a thief.

I've been taking some final readings with both the hydrometer and the refractometer. I use an app called "BrixCalc" on iTunes. I don't know if it's on Android or not. I really like the app because A) it supports cloud storage, so data transfers across my iPhone and iPad. I also really like that in the settings, there are multiple options for calculating both original gravity, final-gravity based on original reading, and even alcohol-by-volume calculations. In the manual, the developer explains each of the options and how he came to choose the defaults for his app.

In default, the "Polynomial" setting on final & current gravity made my refractometer readings about 2 points lower than my hydrometer. This ended up being a good thing, as I was afraid my Bock had finished out too dry to compete with. I confirmed this with three different brews over the next week.

I then switched the app over to the "Terrill Cubic" setting, and suddenly the final readings (which don't get changed by changing settings - just the final math) my final readings suddenly matched the hydrometer. With my most-recent brew, my app-adjusted refractometer meeting matched my hydrometer perfectly.

I THINK the reason for my bottle bombs has been underpitching and lack of oxygenating. These recent beers - one being a rather high-gravity and very acidic cider - fermented out FAAAST. WAY faster than I'm used to. I also think I've had a few issues with mild infections, so I'm switching to better-quality cleaning products like PBW and Star-San (I've used "Easy Clean" for several years now.)

I'm going to continue to double-check my refractometer readings with my hydrometer for another brew or two, but I'm starting to think that I've found a process that works for me and my beer, so I'm going to cautiously go against the grain and see how my beers end up later this year.

Oh also, though I've been extremely dilligent about priming sugar calculations and measurements, my beers this year are going to be keg-carbonated and bottled with a Beer Gun, so I shouldn't have to worry about issues with priming sugar, though I don't really think that was the issue.

I do appreciate the responses. Please don't feel slighted if I'm not following your advice. I'm not saying you're wrong - if anything, I'm simply accepting the risk!