Have I been adjusting pH incorrectly?

[snowveil]

Sorry to throw out yet ANOTHER thread about mash pH...but my head is spinning after reading so much varied information in books, threads, and hearing it in podcasts.

I recently got a BrewLab Basic kit (not the plus, since I already have a pH meter) so I can start brewing with tap water more confidently. I'll post the full readout that I got from the kit in a separate response, as it's not really the main focus of this post.

I calibrate my pH meter with two-point calibration (4.01 and 7.01) before every brew day.

Building up from RO water, my mash pH typically falls in the 5.2-5.3 pH range AT ROOM TEMPERATURE.

I've only recently learned about the 0.3 shift in pH between mash temp and room temp.


My typical RO water additions for pale to amber beers, for 5 gallons, is around 6g Calcium Sulfate for hoppy beers, with some acid malt in the mash. Malt driven beers I tend more towards 4g Calcium Chloride and 2g Calcium Sulfate, again, acid malt in the mash. Beers that use highly roasted malt (200 lov and above) have the dark malts added at the end of the mash just before sparge, and mineral adjustments are saved for the boil kettle. I'm using Palmer's water book to shoot for about 75ppm Ca in the mash liquor.


The main question I have is....with my ROOM TEMP measured mash pH being 5.2-5.3 ...is this too low? Should I be adjusting anything in my process to drive the pH up a few points?

 

[snowveil]

Here are the results from the BrewLab kit on my tap water:

Total Alkalinity = 20ppm as CaCO3
Residual Alkalinity = 10ppm as CaCO3
Calcium (hardness) 20ppm as CaCO3 -or- 8ppm Ca+2
Magnesium (hardness) 30ppm as CaCO3 -or- 7.2ppm Mg+2
Sulfate = ~20ppm
Chloride = 20ppm
Sodium = 9ppm

According to my local municipality, these ranges are pretty close to within their readouts from a 2015 report. Readings are supposed to be accurate within about 10ppm. Those that are familiar with the BrewLab kit know that the Sulfate measurement is only accurate within 50ppm. The Municipality report measured it at 29ppm last year. I'm not entirely concerned with getting exact levels.

The only concern I can see with this water is the super low Residual Alkalinity for brewing dark beers. Through trial and error over the years I've started adding dark malt additions late, and only adjusting minerals in the boil kettle after sparge.

I bought a bag of pickling lime at the grocery store about a year ago but haven't had the gumption to use it yet.

The Municipality says there is ~4ppm Chlorine, which I treat with a 1/2 Campden tablet per ~10 gallons.

Do you see any glaring issues that I don't with this water?

 

[Yooper]

5.3 is an ideal mash pH, at room temperature. The ideal range is listed at 5.3-5.5 but I like some beers (like a dry stout) at 5.2, while a sweet stout I like best at 5.5 or so. I like my IPAs and APAs mashed at 5.3 or so. You're right in the range.

 

[ajdelange]

In general the ideal mash pH range is considered to be 5.4 to 5.6 at room temperature with excursions of about 0.1 either side of it considered allowable. So generally speaking I'd say back off on the sauermalz a little to get a slightly higher mash pH. However, if someone, has experimented with different pH levels and found that it produces beers more to her liking that the range usually recommended then I have no argument with that. There are so many variables to tweak in shooting for the optimum water treatment that I don't think many try different brews at different mash pH's. But we should!

 

[snowveil]

Awesome, thanks for easing my concerns, Yooper and AJ.

Do either of you have experience in using slaked lime to raise mash pH? Any idea at starting doses with a low RA water like I have?

Yooper, if you water is anything like bsdx's I'm sure it's super hard and probably needs cut with RO, if anything, but you never know!

 

[Yooper]

Awesome, thanks for easing my concerns, Yooper and AJ.

Do either of you have experience in using slaked lime to raise mash pH? Any idea at starting doses with a low RA water like I have?

Yooper, if you water is anything like bsdx's I'm sure it's super hard and probably needs cut with RO, if anything, but you never know!

Yes, but I live maybe 500 miles away from him so I have no idea what his water would be like. Still, I almost always use RO water to start with. For my stout, I'll use my tap water but that is the only beer I use tap water for.

 

[ajdelange]

Do either of you have experience in using slaked lime to raise mash pH? Any idea at starting doses with a low RA water like I have?

No. Though I have experimented with it in the lab and come up with a formula for determining its purity I have never found it necessary to use it in an actual beer. I have been brewing stouts with my well water and found the pH to be too high (around 5.6) so next time I do one I'll probably use a blend of well and RO or straight RO but I won't need any alkali even with pure RO as getting rid of the 100 ppm as CaCO3 alkalinity in my well water would result in a mash pH of about 5.5. It is, unlikely, therefore, that you will need any alkali in your dark beers either. The exceptions come when you choose to use inordinate amounts of dark or roast malts for whatever reason (home brewers love to experiment). Where you do need alkali the amount is usually modest and it is, in those caseses, generally better to get it from sodium bicarbonate rather than lime.

 

[blazingsun81]

This is right out of John palmer how to brew balancing p.h and mineral. This has helped me greatly , specially with dark Beers
http://howtobrew.com/book/section-3/understanding-the-mash-ph/balancing-the-malts-and-minerals

 

[MockY]

The main question I have is....with my ROOM TEMP measured mash pH being 5.2-5.3 ...is this too low? Should I be adjusting anything in my process to drive the pH up a few points?

I'm wondering the same after watching John Palmer's presentation at Northern Brewer 6 years ago. There he states that the ideal pH range are as follows:
At mash temp (~152): 5.1-5.5
At room temp: 5.4-5.8.
You can see that snippet here https://youtu.be/zJj__jEkFUE?t=817

With that said, the number the various programs are calculating (I'm using Bru'n Water currently), I assume it is showing mash pH at actual temp and NOT room temp. So in other words, when taking a sample at room temp, this should always be higher than the target pH the program shows. So if Bru'n Water shows a mash temp of 5.4, the sample I take should say 5.7.

Or am I wrong here?