Harvesting Yeast from Bell's Two Hearted Ale

[Beezer94]

Everything I had remembered reading long ago was that Wyeast American Ale II 1272 (aka White Labs California V WLP051) was the strain bells uses.

 

[philipCT]

The Pale Ale actually has a lower ABV than the Amber, and I like it more also. I have a small mason jar going now with about 4 beers worth of the Two Hearted yeast going now. I can see some cake forming and some floating on the surface. I just picked up a sixer of the Pale Ale and plan on making a starter out of all 6. I'm going to split my next batch and pitch both to see if there is a difference. I know they are the same strain... I just want to see if there is a difference between the more stressed TH cells or the less stressed Pale Ale cells.

FWIW - I've successfully harvested and propagated the Conan strain from a two 5 month old cans of Heady Topper. That is such a monster yeast I did a few steps but it came roaring up to speed really nicely, and I got about 82% attenuation with it on an extract TH clone.

From this I am given to believe that like many other things in brewing, yeast is stronger/more resilient than you think.

BTW - Thanks for all the chatter about Bell's TH - it inspired me to drive to the next state yesterday to pick some TH up since none is available in CT (!fume!). I have the grain bill for an AG TH clone and now I'm going to harvest Bell's yeast and use that instead of the Coman.

Also FWIW - that NB extract recipe with the Conan was a pretty good taste match for the authentic stuff. Of course, Bell's was lighter, crisper and clearer - but I'm getting there (maybe).

Any reports on that Zymurgy recipe?

 

[philipCT]

Update: dregs from two 12 oz bottles of TH into a 300ml starter. Spin plate for two days. Faint evidence of yeast. Added 400ml more starter wort. Spin plate for two more days. Nice tan color shift, clearly yeast swimming around. Added 800ml more starter. Spin plate for two days, and then topped up to 2L with more starter so I would have enough to brew with and some for saving.

By Brew day Saturday, I was able to save 400ml in a sterilized pint jar and pitch the rest. I've had a very active 5 gal fermentation going since.

So far so good, but the one strange thing I noticed is the smell from this fermentation is different than any I've ever done before. All my previous fermentations have off gassed really great aromas. I usually love opening the ferm temp ctl chamber and smelling. I tried that with this one and had my nose hairs burned off and went into a coughing fit. There's a really dense, sharp, acrid odor of vinegar/ammonia down in the blowoff bucket. I've read people saying this was CO2 in other threads, but CO2 is supposed to be odorless, isn't it? This stuff has such an acrid burn to it that I'd almost be afraid to light a match down there.

Has anyone else noticed this from the Bells yeast?

 

[mtnagel]

I don't have a fermentation chamber, but I did smell the exhaust out the airlock (is that weird?) and it smelled like normal on the Two Hearted clone I made using harvested Bell's yeast.

 

[philipCT]

No, not weird. Love to smell those fermentation smells - usually! Which is why I'm so puzzled about these odors.

This is certainly a very vigorous fermentation. But not more so than many others I've seen.

From further reading about this, it seems CO2 does have an acrid odor at higher concentrations. The only thing I can think of os that the amount of Co2 being off-gassed here is overpowering the normal beer fermenting smells.

I'm not going to stress about it for now. I'm sure the beer will be wonderful. I'll wait for the taste test when it's time to transfer to 2ndry.

 

[philipCT]

Update: I've bottle conditioned this and aged it a bit. It's quite a lovely beer if perhaps a little thin in the body around the middle of the flavor wave. The aroma is wonderful, and that first wave of flavor is really lovely, fruity balanced with hops bitterness that grounds it.

I still think the Bells manages to be both a little fuller and slightly bigger and more complex flavor profile yet a little more bright and fresh on the palate.

I'll have to do a side by side taste test before I beat myself up anymore though. Just kidding - I'm really delighted with the beer.

Bottom line on the yeast? I would say it did very well and I ended up getting a good attenuation - about 78% as I recall without being in front of the log. I also want to go back and check to see how the mash went. I am still getting used to my AG rig and I don't think I hit the temp I was aiming for. That may account for that slight thinness I sense in the body. I had thought some extra bottle conditioning would improve that, and I do think it has, but I may let it come along a bit more before I label this batch.

 

[Chris_Primavera]

Need to resurrect an old thread. My bottles of TH show no signs of sediment, so I'm going to pick up a six of their Amber and give this a go.

Assuming everything goes well, how long from bottle to pitch without a stir plate?

 

[kpr121]

Need to resurrect an old thread. My bottles of TH show no signs of sediment, so I'm going to pick up a six of their Amber and give this a go.

Assuming everything goes well, how long from bottle to pitch without a stir plate?

Best chances you should have pitchable quantities in under a week with proper step ups.

Check out Oberon if you can get it in your area. Would ensure fresh yeast and its also a great beer. I have a thread started on harvesting 2015 Oberon here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=521973

 

[Chris_Primavera]

I will sacrifice my body to science and drink some TH tonight so I can try to harvest the yeast.

 

[mtnagel]

Need to resurrect an old thread. My bottles of TH show no signs of sediment, so I'm going to pick up a six of their Amber and give this a go.

Assuming everything goes well, how long from bottle to pitch without a stir plate?

Best chances you should have pitchable quantities in under a week with proper step ups.

Check out Oberon if you can get it in your area. Would ensure fresh yeast and its also a great beer. I have a thread started on harvesting 2015 Oberon here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=521973

Both times I've harvested from bottles (Heady Topper and Two Hearted), it took a good solid 4-5 days before I saw any activity from that first starter, so I'd plan for more time. Then I was able to make stepped starters like normal.

With that said, both times I was able to see activity not long after raising the temperature so if you can start in the 72-75F range, that might speed it along.

 

[kpr121]

Both times I've harvested from bottles (Heady Topper and Two Hearted), it took a good solid 4-5 days before I saw any activity from that first starter, so I'd plan for more time. Then I was able to make stepped starters like normal.



With that said, both times I was able to see activity not long after raising the temperature so if you can start in the 72-75F range, that might speed it along.

I had starter wort attenuated to 1.005 SG in about 2-3 days with my recent harvest of Oberon yeast. Noticed active fermentation within 4 hours. No stir plate but I did set the flask on a book above a reptile heater, so temps were closer to 80.

That's why I said best case in under a week. 3 days for the first step and and couple for a second stepup.

So it can be done, but of course youre better off planning for the worse and giving it some more time just in case. But if you get a young/fresh six pack and keep the yeast warm it's doable.

 

[Chris_Primavera]

Bought some Oberon, then got home and took a close look at the TH.

Decided to give the TH a try and drank / salvaged two bottles into a 1.02 x 100ml wort.

I am determined to make this work, no matter how many bottles of this stuff I have to drink!

Hooah!

 

[Brew_G]

I'll be using the last of my Two Hearted-harvested yeast this weekend. Hasn't failed me yet.

Fruity, attenuative...Bell's yeast is phenomenal.

 

[kpr121]

Bought some Oberon, then got home and took a close look at the TH.



Decided to give the TH a try and drank / salvaged two bottles into a 1.02 x 100ml wort.



I am determined to make this work, no matter how many bottles of this stuff I have to drink!



Hooah!

That's the spirit!

 

[1971hemicuda]

So, Bell's suggests harvesting from something OTHER than TH not because you can't, not JUST because the yeast is the same, but because the S.G. on their Amber, or Oberon, is much lower and thus has stressed the yeast less. The more stress the yeast is under the more potential "mutant's" you'll receive, changing the profile of the yeast

It's why harvesting is never recommended from beers over 60 and highly discouraged from beers over 80 or 85 (Starting Gravity)

So, just be aware when you're harvesting! Outside of that, the same thing can be done with Rogue beers to get PacMan =) if you don't want to wait for the "special" wyeast pack to come out!

 

[Chris_Primavera]

OK, So I have stepped up the starter once and have active fermentation going on. If I want to brew this weekend, should I step it up again, or refrigerate after it ferments out?

 

[mtnagel]

You should try to use a yeast calculator to estimate how much yeast you have. Yeastcalculator.com works well. Start with 1-2 billion cells from the bottle.

 

[Chris_Primavera]

I'll be using the last of my Two Hearted-harvested yeast this weekend. Hasn't failed me yet.

Fruity, attenuative...Bell's yeast is phenomenal.

Good steady fermentation 24 hours in - currently at 68°F - sound about right for this strain?

 

[Brew_G]

Good steady fermentation 24 hours in - currently at 68°F - sound about right for this strain?

That's what I've fermented at, and there's a smooth, slight fruitiness at that temp. I contacted Bell's a few months ago, and they confirmed that you'll get a nice, clean fermentation at the lower range of about 62-64F and increased fruitiness as you get to 70-72F. It's incredibly versatile, attenuates well, floccs out nicely with a cold crash, and isn't overly fussy about temps.

I haven't seen a big kräusen yet, though. It generally stays fairly small - maybe 1-1.5" at most. The beer I just brewed has its kräusen completely drop in about 60 hours, with vigorous fermentation for about 48 hours leading up to that.

 

[Chris_Primavera]

Just threw another batch on top of the yeast cake - hit the wort with O2 - two hours in and it's rockin' and rollin'