Gushers: infection, over-carbed, bottle size?

[mistercameron]

Over my grand career total of 5 batches, I've had some mixed bottling luck. More often than not I've had gushers, but nothing I can really point to as being a possible culprit. I've read a number of threads where members suggested gushing is often a result of infections, though I'm not sure that's the case here.

This most recent batch is a hef that I carbed to about 4 volumes using corn sugar and the right amount based on my beer volume. I put a good mix of 12s and 22s in the fridge a couple days before opening. The 12s were fine, but the 22s were spewing constant foam. Here's what I've observed:

• Primary fermentation was done - FG 1.01 for 4 days (total 15 days)
• Both 12s and 22s have about the same amount of head space- whatever the bottling wand volume was
• Star-San with a vinator and dipped the mouth of the bottle before standing upside-down in a milk crate.
• Boiled the caps for over 10 minutes
• All previously-used bottles, though the 12s probably more cleaning and sanitizing with all the soaking I did to remove labels and gunk from the outside, except the bottles were ALL free of debris inside.
• The hef, when poured into a glass, still had quite a bit of effervescence from the glass - like champagne or sparkling cider.
• I rolled the bottles on the countertop to stir up the yeast before opening

That's about all I can think of. Really, I've gone through 3-4 12s and I think 2 of the 22s in the last two days. I've received really good reviews, especially from SWMBO, and I think the beer tastes great. I have a couple more I'm going to open at a party this afternoon, so I'll have more to report (I won't roll them this time).

Thanks guys!

 

[jigidyjim]

Curious - how long were they bottle conditioned before you put in fridge? I've heard some people report that there's a period during conditioning where gushing can happen (though I'm not sure why)...

Did you fill the 22's and 12's from your bucket in mixed order? Or did you do all 12's then all 22's? If that's the case, you might have had your priming sugar not well mixed. I've had a couple batches where this happens - I'll get 3-4 gushers in a batch of 45. Especially if it doesn't taste infected, this might be the cause.

It'll be interesting to hear if there's any difference when you don't roll the bottles.

 

[mistercameron]

IIRC the bottles conditioned for about 10 days in pretty warm weather - it's been in the upper 70s inside this last week; no air conditioning. When I mix up the priming sugar I boil it in about a quart of water for 10 minutes, cool then dump into the bottling bucket with a gentle stir. I did a few 22s then several 12s at a time - no real order to it. I think the 22s that gushed were amont the first three bottled in the batch and come to think of it - I forgot to fully sanitize the *outside* of the bottling wand first on those. That may or may not matter.

 

[mrduna01]

Over my grand career total of 5 batches, I've had some mixed bottling luck. More often than not I've had gushers, but nothing I can really point to as being a possible culprit. I've read a number of threads where members suggested gushing is often a result of infections, though I'm not sure that's the case here.

This most recent batch is a hef that I carbed to about 4 volumes using corn sugar and the right amount based on my beer volume. I put a good mix of 12s and 22s in the fridge a couple days before opening. The 12s were fine, but the 22s were spewing constant foam. Here's what I've observed:

[*]Primary fermentation was done - FG 1.01 for 4 days (total 15 days)
[*]Both 12s and 22s have about the same amount of head space- whatever the bottling wand volume was
[*]Star-San with a vinator and dipped the mouth of the bottle before standing upside-down in a milk crate.
[*]Boiled the caps for over 10 minutes
[*]All previously-used bottles, though the 12s probably more cleaning and sanitizing with all the soaking I did to remove labels and gunk from the outside, except the bottles were ALL free of debris inside.
[*]The hef, when poured into a glass, still had quite a bit of effervescence from the glass - like champagne or sparkling cider.
[*]I rolled the bottles on the countertop to stir up the yeast before opening


That's about all I can think of. Really, I've gone through 3-4 12s and I think 2 of the 22s in the last two days. I've received really good reviews, especially from SWMBO, and I think the beer tastes great. I have a couple more I'm going to open at a party this afternoon, so I'll have more to report (I won't roll them this time).

Thanks guys!

I would guess that the 4 volumes of C02 is the culprit. That's way up there dude.

 

[mistercameron]

I would guess that the 4 volumes of C02 is the culprit. That's way up there dude.

4 volumes should be about right for a hef. Could it be that's too much for bottling? I'm not sure.
Hef Carbing Thread

 

[mrduna01]

4 volumes should be about right for a hef. Could it be that's too much for bottling? I'm not sure.
Hef Carbing Thread

You may be right about that. I haven't brewed any Hefes. Hopefully someone with better ideas can chime in.

 

[mrduna01]

Just noticed that you said your rolling them before opening. The proper way to do it is to pour all but a 1/4 inch or so, then give the remaining bit a swirl to get the yeast in suspension then pour the yeast in to glass. That may be your problem.

 

[bartbert]

IIRC the bottles conditioned for about 10 days in pretty warm weather - it's been in the upper 70s inside this last week; no air conditioning. When I mix up the priming sugar I boil it in about a quart of water for 10 minutes, cool then dump into the bottling bucket with a gentle stir. I did a few 22s then several 12s at a time - no real order to it. I think the 22s that gushed were amont the first three bottled in the batch and come to think of it - I forgot to fully sanitize the *outside* of the bottling wand first on those. That may or may not matter.

I would guess that 10 days is not enough time, particularly for the larger bottles. As Revvy constantly reminds us, 3 weeks is considered to be a mini mum amount of time for conditioning. Bigger beers and bigger bottles are going to require more time. I would give the 12's another week and the 22's two weeks before trying it again.

 

[mistercameron]

I refrained from rolling them this afternoon and they were still gushing. I let the gas out very slowly so at least I didn't lose too much.

I later read some posts by revvy about larger bottles needing more time... hopefully that's what it is. I was hoping ten days would have been enough. I'll check in next weekend.

 

[passedpawn]

You may have bacteria in the beer from the fermentor. Check your sanitation there. If you're using a bucket, bleach the crap out it, then rinse well, then starsan just before use.

 

[mistercameron]

You may have bacteria in the beer from the fermentor. Check your sanitation there. If you're using a bucket, bleach the crap out it, then rinse well, then starsan just before use.

Brand new carboy with plenty star san. I'll definitely bleach the bottling bucket for this next batch (also first use)

 

[bovineblitz]

4 volumes is too much IMO. It's right for a hefe but idk that you can get that to dispense properly out of a bottle. It seems to me that commercial hefeweizens in bottles aren't carb'd much more than your typical american ale, just a touch more.

I could be wrong of course but I've had bad luck with that much carbonation.

 

[passedpawn]

You need to adjust your priming sugars for the temp of the beer (actually, for the highest temp the beer got post fermentation). Could that be part of the problem?

 

[mistercameron]

You need to adjust your priming sugars for the temp of the beer (actually, for the highest temp the beer got post fermentation). Could that be part of the problem?

I believe I carbed for 72 degrees, but with the heat wave I think we got up to 80 in the house. I thought the temp didn't matter during carb as much as it does at serving. The bottles were chilled between 24 - 48hrs before serving. Fridge temp stays around 39.

 

[mistercameron]

It's been another week since the gusher and I guess that was enough... the 22 I opened last night fizzled a little but nothing out of the ordinary. Problem solved.

This is good to remember for every future bottled brew

 

[Revvy]

IIRC the bottles conditioned for about 10 days ....

This is why, it's not infection, it's impatience.

There's nothing wrong with your beer, it's not overprimed nor is it infected...the problem is YOU'RE OPENNING THE BEER AFTER BEING IN THE BOTTLE ONLY 10 DAYS!!!!


Watch poindexter's video from my bottling blog.



Like he shows several times, even @ 1 week, all the hissing, all the foaming can and does happen, but until it's dissolved back into the beer, your don't really have carbonation, with tiny bubbles coming out of solution happening actually inside the glass, not JUST what's happening on the surface.

The 3 weeks at 70 degrees, that we recommend is the minimum time it takes for average gravity beers to carbonate and condition. Higher grav beers take longer.

But until then the beer can even appear to be overcarbed, when really nothing is wrong.

A lot of new brewers who tend to kill their two cases off in a few days, don't experience true carbonation and the pleasures thereof, until they actually get a pipeline going, and have their first 5 or 6 week old full carbed and conditioned wonderfully little puppy! Then the come back with an "aha" moment.

Everything you need to know about carbing and conditioning, can be found here Of Patience and Bottle Conditioning. With emphasis on the word, "patience."

Makes sure the beers are minimum of 3 weeks at 70 degrees before you even think of opening them, then make sure a couple of them are THOROUGHLY chilled for at least 48 hours to draw the co2 into solution. Then more than likely everything will be hunky dory....

Had you opened them after 3 weeks you never would have noticed anything wrong.....

Additionally, a larger volume sized bottle usually needs more time to carb AND condition. I have some pints, 22 oz bombers and other sizes that I often use, but since I enter contests I usually also do a sixer or two of standard 12 ouncers for entering. And inevitably the 12 ouncers are done at least a week faster than the larger bottles....some times two weeks ahead of time...

Also the rule of thumb is 3 weeks at 70 degrees for a normal grav 12 ounce bottle....to carb and condition....It takes longer for the yeasties to convert the larger volume in the bigger bottles to enough co2 in the headspace to be reabsorbed back into the solution...A ration I don't know how much...

Big Kahuna gives a good explanation here...

Simple. It's the ration of contact area just like in a keg. The c02 will need to pressurize the head space (Which takes LESS TIME) in a bigger bottle (More Yeast and sugar, roughly the same head space) but then it has to force that c02 into solution through the same contact area...thus it takes longer.

 

[mistercameron]

The Revvy has spoken.

Actually, this is my first batch bottled with 22s, so I fit right in there with all the other noobs . My first impression from rehab I've been reading was that hefs tend to finish "early" so I figured all my bottles would be good after the suggested 10 days. But, now I know better.

Thanks for the help, everyone.

 

[Revvy]

The Revvy has spoken.

Actually, this is my first batch bottled with 22s, so I fit right in there with all the other noobs . My first impression from rehab I've been reading was that hefs tend to finish "early" so I figured all my bottles would be good after the suggested 10 days. But, now I know better.

Thanks for the help, everyone.

What they mean by that really is they don't need to be secondaried or long primaried, since you're not waiting for your yeast to flocculate, but you can't escape how long it takes for the yeast to actually carb the beer. And that's the same whether it's a hefe or any other beer. It's still about 3 weeks when at 70 degrees.