Guarding a biere de garde

[Reckoning]

I'm not sure if I posted this in the correct section of the forum, but I have a question regarding the "guarding" of a biere de garde. Specifically, what type of container should I use? I'm guessing that leaving the beer in a plastic carboy for the next 8-12 months would allow some oxidation (unless I wrap the sucker in plastic wrap like a mummy). I also have glass carboys and corny kegs. Which is the preferred way and is there a sweet spot for temperature?

Also, the biere is basically Jamil's recipe from the old pod cast. I used the Wyeast Biere de Garde yeast (3725) and I've been in the primary now for about 2 weeks (fermentation went on quite a bit longer than I expected with this one).

Thanks

 

[pdxal]

Bulk aging in glass would be a little better, but oxygen uptake in plastic carboys is still low. Air lock either, don't let it dry out, and age at cellar temperature 55ish would work.

 

[chocotaco]

For aging anything after primary fermentation, a check valve is much more convenient than an airlock. Serves the same purpose but does not need to be filled with sanitizer constantly. 3/8" barbed polypropylene check valves seal nicely into a standard rubber stopper and cost under a buck: http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=23369

Order several of them; they are handy for many brewing/kegging purposes.

 

[Reckoning]

Thanks for the tips. Into the glass it goes. Those valves look interesting. I'm guessing you just stick it in the hole of a drilled rubber stopper like you would an airlock and it will only let air out? Would there be a reason not to use this type of thing instead of a normal airlock during primary fermentation too?

 

[TNGabe]

There's no reason to bulk age a biere de garde. Once fermentation is complete, transfer off the yeast for lagering. Most commercial producers lager from two to four weeks, although some may go as long as six IIRC (per Farmhouse Ales). After that bottle condition and then cellar the bottles if desired.

Not that it will help with this batch, but WY3725 isn't a very good yeast for BdG. It's supposedly isolated from Fantome and is more suitable for saisons, though I don't like it much for those either. It doesn't give the malt forward flavors appropriate to the style. WLP072 French Ale is the best commercial yeast for the style, although it's only available seasonally. I try and keep it going all year as I use it for a number of other beer styles, but if I couldn't get WLP072, I'd use a Kolsch or Alt yeast as modern BdG has more in common with those beers (lagered, malt forward ales) than other styles.

If you do want to bulk age a beer there is no reason to use a glass carboy instead of a Better Bottle. With both, the main point of oxygen permeability is the bung/stopper.

 

[Reckoning]

The kind owner of my local brew shop gave my the 3725 gratis which was how it ended up in the batch. I was originally considering using the 3711 as I have a bunch of it in the fridge. I'm guessing that might be a little too dry and spicy, though?

 

[chocotaco]

Thanks for the tips. Into the glass it goes. Those valves look interesting. I'm guessing you just stick it in the hole of a drilled rubber stopper like you would an airlock and it will only let air out? Would there be a reason not to use this type of thing instead of a normal airlock during primary fermentation too?

Yep, just poke it into the hole like an airlock. Make sure the tapered of the body end is pointing away from the beer.

I have used them during primary (when I had plenty of headspace) and it worked great; but it's usually a good idea to use a blowoff tube instead. I am not sure if pellet hop particles or krausen would clog the check valve, but I wouldn't risk it.

But you can use it in lieu of an airlock in any situation you would use an air lock. I've never gone back to airlocks because the check valve doesn't suck sanitizer back into your beer and is also smaller and cheaper.

 

[TNGabe]

The kind owner of my local brew shop gave my the 3725 gratis which was how it ended up in the batch. I was originally considering using the 3711 as I have a bunch of it in the fridge. I'm guessing that might be a little too dry and spicy, though?

3711 will give you a saison, biere de garde needs a very different yeast.

 

[Reckoning]

On a related note, then ... is there any style which is suited to 3711 other than saison? The Wyeast website lists the following styles:

Styles:
Belgian Blond Ale
Belgian Dark Strong Ale
Belgian Golden Strong Ale
Belgian Specialty Ale
Bière de Garde
Saison

I don't really need to use it in anything other than saison, however I kind of prefer the Belgian saison yeast for the style. I know people often use it for stuck fermentations, but is there anything else it performs well in?

 

[sweetcell]

On a related note, then ... is there any style which is suited to 3711 other than saison? The Wyeast website lists the following styles:

Styles:
Belgian Blond Ale
Belgian Dark Strong Ale
Belgian Golden Strong Ale
Belgian Specialty Ale
Bière de Garde
Saison

I don't really need to use it in anything other than saison, however I kind of prefer the Belgian saison yeast for the style. I know people often use it for stuck fermentations, but is there anything else it performs well in?

use 3711 in conjunction with Belgian Saison (Dupont). start with the Dupont, it will likely crap out around 1.035-1.040, then use 3711 to finish off the beer.

 

[TNGabe]

On a related note, then ... is there any style which is suited to 3711 other than saison? The Wyeast website lists the following styles:

Styles:
Belgian Blond Ale
Belgian Dark Strong Ale
Belgian Golden Strong Ale
Belgian Specialty Ale
Bière de Garde
Saison

I don't really need to use it in anything other than saison, however I kind of prefer the Belgian saison yeast for the style. I know people often use it for stuck fermentations, but is there anything else it performs well in?

On my opinion, saison yeast doesn't really work for any style but saison. Well, maybe not 100% true, I do make a lot of hoppy to very hoppy beers with saison yeast that I'll usually call farmhouse pales or farmhouse IPAs, but I wouldn't use saison yeast for a dark strong, strong golden , etc.

I don't like 3711 at all. It has a very distinct taste that I find unpleasant.

 

[beergolf]

3711 is not a good choice for a Biere de Garde. I have used WY1007 and it worked well.

 

[pdxal]

On a related note, then ... is there any style which is suited to 3711 other than saison? The Wyeast website lists the following styles:

Styles:
Belgian Blond Ale
Belgian Dark Strong Ale
Belgian Golden Strong Ale
Belgian Specialty Ale
Bière de Garde
Saison

I don't really need to use it in anything other than saison, however I kind of prefer the Belgian saison yeast for the style. I know people often use it for stuck fermentations, but is there anything else it performs well in?

I remember seeing on here somewhere there is someone who uses it extensively for a range of beers. Like 3787, if fermented cooler it is more neutral and fermented warmer it is more phenolic/estery.

 

[Twinkeelfool]

I've been using 3725 for beire de gardes and love it. I didn't lager mine, but I've aged them in the bottle. Tasting mine next to a trois monts, and jenlain, to my palate it's definately a similar yeast strain. The "cellar" or "musty" flavour is big in my beire de garde. I think it's probably the best beer I've made.