Great HOP pricing going on!

[HoppyDaze]

so the hops I just received from HD are 2008 correct?

 

[The Pol]

so the hops I just received from HD are 2008 correct?

Unless you specifically ordered "New Stock" hops, which are currently ONLY available in leaf form.

 

[RichBenn]

Unless you specifically ordered "New Stock" hops, which are currently ONLY available in leaf form.

:rockin: (still waiting for my fresh leaf...)

Don't the pellets have the year on the label?

 

[samc]

The "old stock" Cascade leaf I received last week sure looked like "new" to me. They were very loose as compared to the other varieties which were all tightly compressed. Somewhere along the line when they run out of "old" they are going to send you "new".

I was a bit disappointed in the Cascade in that it lacked many whole cones and was mostly individual leaf. Just brewed this weekend so time will tell if they provide the punch.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

I think maybe I am missing something. Can anybody point me to where on the Hops Direct site it says that they are selling 2008 Hops? I see is a line that says "2009 Hop Harvest has STARTED". And one that says "Look for NEW CROP LEAF Prices". Maybe you guys have contacted them and know they are selling 2008 hops, but its not obvious to me (not that it matters).

 

[The Pol]

I think maybe I am missing something. Can anybody point me to where on the Hops Direct site it says that they are selling 2008 Hops? I see is a line that says "2009 Hop Harvest has STARTED". And one that says "Look for NEW CROP LEAF Prices". Maybe you guys have contacted them and know they are selling 2008 hops, but its not obvious to me (not that it matters).

Well, ALL OF THE 2009 HOPS are sold as "New Stock". You can see it clearly on the site. They have not made the pellets yet... they had a statement that said they were going to start making the Cascade pellet first. If you arent buying "NEW STOCK" then they are 2008.... just like every other store is selling for 3x as much .

 

[elmetal]

So do the shipped pellets have the correct aa? Or do I need to calculate a year degradation in oxygenfree frozen environment?

 

[The Pol]

So do the shipped pellets have the correct aa? Or do I need to calculate a year degradation in oxygenfree frozen environment?

My guess would be that they are not testing the AA monthly and updating the packages. My guess is that it would be just like buying from the LHBS, the listed AA will be the original

 

[Couevas]

My guess would be that they are not testing the AA monthly and updating the packages. My guess is that it would be just like buying from the LHBS, the listed AA will be the original

According to Roqk, this is innacurate:

Whatever the AA's are on the package that you get from Puterbaugh Farms is the AA's for that hop at the time of packaging. If you have concerns about the AA's then by all means email Puterbaugh Farms and see what they hafta say. As a matter of fact I believe I'll do that anyways.

Roqk, any word from HD?

 

[elmetal]

Im curious now!

 

[dontman]

According to Roqk, this is innacurate:



Roqk, any word from HD?

Actually both statements are correct and non-contradictory. The AA is determined at the time of packaging. This is the value that is put on the package. They do not recheck and update that value as the packages sit in storage for the year.

They are nitrogen packed and stored subfreezing so AA decline should be minimal. Not nonexistent but minimal. To date I have never had a result in the bottle that differed appreciably from the AA listed on the bag.

 

[The Pol]

Actually both statements are correct and non-contradictory. The AA is determnied at the time of packaging. This is the value that is put on the package. They do not recheck and update that value as the packages sit in storage for the year.

They are nitrogen packed and stored subfreezing so AA decline should be minimal. Not nonexistent but minimal. To date I have never had a result in the bottle that differed appreciably from the AA listed on the bag.

Right... my statement is the same as that of Roqk. These statements are not mutually exclusive. Unless of course you are under the assumption that they dont package the hops until you order them.

There was a statement made in this thread that Cascades lose 50% of thier AA in 12 months, I dont know where that came from, but if I plug this into ProMash (which will track AA degradation) it is more like 7.2AA to 6.6AA over the course of a full year (vaccuum and frozen at 20F)

 

[elmetal]

so for 2008 pellets we are to assume they were 'pelleted' and vacuum sealed at 20f in October of 2008? is that a good measure?

(I was asking because I like to keep my inventory on promash looking clean and accurate, especially hops)

 

[dontman]

I think it is actually 30f but otherwise yes that sounds correct.

(And if I had realized my last post was going to be quoted I would have corrected the glaring spelling error. )

 

[elmetal]

sweet!

Thanks

 

[the_Roqk]

Roqk, any word from HD?

No word yet. They are really busy this time of year but hopefully I can get a reply sometime this week. We'll see.

 

[magnj]

Right... my statement is the same as that of Roqk. These statements are not mutually exclusive. Unless of course you are under the assumption that they dont package the hops until you order them.

There was a statement made in this thread that Cascades lose 50% of thier AA in 12 months, I dont know where that came from, but if I plug this into ProMash (which will track AA degradation) it is more like 7.2AA to 6.6AA over the course of a full year (vaccuum and frozen at 20F)

My information came from Brewmonkey's hop data "US Cascade...Storageability 48 - 52% alpha acids remaining after 6 months storage at 20°C" -Brew Monkey

Not sure if it is correct bit this actually says 50% in 6 months, please correct me if I'm wrong I would like to formulate my recipes in Beersmith using the correct values.

 

[Beezer94]

20C would mean roughly 68F, so room temperature, not in the freezer.

 

[dontman]

And not in nitrogen storage either. My educated guess is that the alpha deterioration is less than 10% per year under storage conditions at HD and optimal storage at home.

 

[magnj]

Minor details . Thanks for pointing those facts out, would love to hear back from HD too though.

 

[The Pol]

Riiiight.... thanks DM for answering that. Yah, 20C is pretty darn hot and not vaccuum sealed either? You are right, if you choose the worst storage conditions possible, there is a lot of AA loss. I calculate about 10% loss over 12 months if they are stored properly.

Id like to hear from HD on this, but I presume that they measure when they are packaged, and then sell them at that AA like every other HBS does until the hops are gone, even if it takes a year to do so.

 

[alpha_acid]

I just 4lb of '09 whole hops. Each bag weighed 19-20oz including bag. Shipped via UPS for about $9

 

[the_Roqk]

Update

Still no word yet.

If anyone else would like to email Puterbaugh Farms about the AA's issue please do. If more get involved then maybe someone will atleast get a response. Beware they are still busy. Cheers!

 

[jbambuti]

I just received 1 lb. of Centennial pellets and 1 lb. of Magnum from HD. Both weighed in a shade over 18 oz. I'm looking forward to brewing a nice IPA with them this weekend. Now if my LHBS got us-05 back in stock, I'll be pleased.

 

[FrFtr28]

Just an update with my order. I placed an order back on 9/15 and received it yesterday in Northwest PA. Each pound was a couple ounces over and the bags were perfectly sealed.

 

[Benny Blanco]

I say we all spam them with emails until we get to the bottom of this AA% issue :rockin:

 

[HoppyDaze]

I say we all spam them with emails until we get to the bottom of this AA% issue :rockin:

yeah...its the least we can do for them giving us hops at a great price!!!:rockin:

 

[dontman]

funny, could of sworn we got to the bottom of the "AA Issue" a few pages back. This really is not some great mystery that requires a PI to solve.

Industry practice is well known and documented and explained over and over on this thread among other places.

 

[Benny Blanco]

Well, I'm not dying to know and it's not holding up any brew days. I was just curious as to whether or not they periodically check AA% and adjust their hops for sale accordingly. Even if it's a small change in percentage.

 

[dontman]

They are harvested, dried, then packaged and tested for AA at time of packaging. This figure goes on the package and it is the job of the consumer to adjust based on storage conditions and age.

They are not ever reopened and retested and relabeled as this would make knowledge worse, not better. Confusion would reign as the consumer wondered whether the label was from time of harvest or time of retesting or whether it was retested, did the package come from just after retesting or just before. The retesting and relabeling would be money very poorly spent that would ultimately need to be passed on to the customer. And the retesting is completely unnecessary as it is quite simple to adjust AA for age at use. I know BS has this tool and I assume other software does as well.

As it is now we know that the testing occurred close to packaging and that the packaging occurred close to harvest. We need no other info in this scenario. FYI I use 5% loss every six months for 30 degree pellet vacuum packs. this puts a 6% AA label at 5.89 after 12 months. I use 10% for nitrogen pack leaf at 30 degrees. This puts 6% AA at 5.78 at 12 months.

All bets are off for HBS bought hops since you can't be sure of storage conditions and even age.