gravity readings

[mccaine]

Hi, I'm on my second cider making experience and am experimenting using a cup of maple syrup/gal. cider instead of sugar or apple juice concentrate. My original gravity was 1.062 when started on Nov. 8th. It dropped to 1.020 on 12-19, and is stuck at 1.020 as of 12-31-14. I've read that cider is ready to bottle at 1.00. I used 2 grams of Nottingham yeast/1 gal. apple cider. I like a little carbonation after bottled, so my questions are:

1. Do I attempt to add more maple syrup to the mix to get it to 1.00 or is it okay to bottle at a higher FG?

2. Should I back carb. or will I be creating bottle bombs?

3. If the answer to #2 is to back carb., do I add more yeast when bottling, or will the yeast become active once maple syrup is added for back carb.?

Thanks so much for your time and responses!

 

[MarkKF]

What's the temp.? Did u try giving it a swirl? You can rack it into another container and warm it up a bit. See it it takes off again.

 

[MindenMan]

Due to the fact there are more fermentable sugars in cider than wort, you should be able to get the gravity down to 1.000 at least. I partially agree with above poster, swirl it yes, rack it off the lees, no. You didn't mention how long your cider has been fermenting, so I would live on the side of caution and wait before I bottle.

 

[DaMonkey]

No more sugar is needed (a gravity reading above 1.00 means there is sugar in it). I don't like Nottingham it struggles in cider. For this reason you need yeast nutrient with that yeast. Did you use any? If not, add some and shake the carboy.

 

[bernardsmith]

Not fully certain I understand your questions. Here's why. You say that the OG was 1.062 and that you pitched Nottingham. That yeast should easily be able to ferment the cider all the way down below 1.000. But the fermentation has stalled at 1.020. That means there is still about 1/2 lb of residual and fermentable sugar still in the liquid that the yeast for one reason or another is not fermenting. But you ask about adding more fermentable sugar as if the addition of more will somehow activate the yeast.
I would think the more significant question is why has the fermentation stalled? Is it (like MarkKF is asking) too cold? Might the yeast be too stressed because of a lack nutrient in the juice? Is it possible that you added too little yeast when you pitched (isn't Nottingham sold in 11 gm packs so you presumably opened the pack and sprinkled a few grains). Was this pack freshly opened or might it have been the leavings from another batch?
If the fermentation has stalled then adding more sugar will likely do nothing other than make your cider sweeter. If you bottle right now you have no way of knowing what the cause of the stall was and so what may reactivate the yeast in the bottles. If you add more yeast to carb the cider and the problem is in the cider then all you are doing is adding yeast that will go the same way as the colony you already have in your carboy.

If the issue is stressed yeast and you want to repair that damage you might even now add perhaps an 1/8 teaspoon of nutrient and see if that helps. If the yeast does not become active then you might (if you have also tried MarkKF's suggestion of warming the carboy (to about 70F), prepare a yeast starter - either a whole (I know, I know) 11 gm pack of Nottingham or a killer yeast like EC1118 (it will take over which is why it is a killer yeast). The trick is not to pitch the yeast into the stalled cider but to slowly add from the stalled cider into a vessel with the starter.
In other words, you take a CUP of apple juice (sweet juice) and pitch the fresh package of yeast onto that juice. When that cup is demonstrating real action you take a CUP of the stalled cider and add that to your starter. When those two cups are active you then take TWO CUPS from your stalled cider and add that to the starter... and so on until all teh stalled cider is now in the fresh carboy. So every two or three hours you are DOUBLING the volume of the starter with the stalled cider.
The reason for restarting a stalled ferment in this way is that you do not stress the fresh yeast colony by dumping it into a relatively high acid, high alcohol toxic stew. You slowly increase the alcohol level and the acid levels so that the yeast does not croak before it is able to reconstitute itself and begin transfering sugars into its cells and alcohol from its cells.
Good luck!
And I think - given the relative low price of a package of yeast and the cost of the juice and the amount of time you spend in waiting for the cider (or wine or mead) to ferment and age that it is far less expensive to pitch a whole package of yeast (all 11 g) than to measure out 1/5 and reseal the package and store it in a hopefully sterile (not sanitized but sterile ) environment..

 

[kgressler]

Due to the fact there are more fermentable sugars in cider than wort, you should be able to get the gravity down to 1.000 at least. I partially agree with above poster, swirl it yes, rack it off the lees, no. You didn't mention how long your cider has been fermenting, so I would live on the side of caution and wait before I bottle.

Curious why you wouldnt recommend taking it off the lees into another carboy? Its been almost 2 months and he saying its stalled for almost 2 weeks at 1.020?
Cant you leave it in the carboy on the lees too long?

I don't like Nottingham it struggles in cider. For this reason you need yeast nutrient with that yeast. Did you use any? If not, add some and shake the carboy

I've used Notty twice first with zero problems second is currently going and no issues. Both times with unpasteurized cider with no other chemicals just Notty and cider.

I thought that shaking or splashing was bad for cider once it started fermenting?

 

[bernardsmith]

I thought that shaking or splashing was bad for cider once it started fermenting?

I know brewers go nearly apoplectic about introducing air into their brews but vintners (and I include cider makers in that group) have no issue with twice, three times a day stirring air into wines and ciders (and meads). The yeast needs O2 (not a huge amount but some) and the CO2 the yeast produces can drop the pH to levels that stress the yeast. Stirring in air and stirring out CO2 is not really a problem... so banging in a bung and sealing the bung with an airlock does the yeast no favors. Quite the contrary, IMO. When the gravity drops (I say) down to about 1.005 (and others who may be more reticent say 1.010) THEN you transfer the liquor into a carboy that you can fill to the tippy top and then you hammer in the drilled bung and airlock. At that point air is no longer your friend and you use the CO2 to inhibit oxidation.
For an excellent book on cider-making check out Claude Jolicoeur's recently published work:
http://www.chelseagreen.com/bookstore/item/the_new_cider_makers_handbook:hardcover, plc
He's is perhaps one of the best cider makers in North America -

 

[kgressler]

So I've been concerned every time I want to take a gravity reading to see if it close to where I want to stop it and cold crash. So you're telling me as long as everything is clean and sanitized I shouldn't be overly worried when taking a sample then?

Also when you are stirring it do you disturb the lees or just stir the cider itself?

 

[mccaine]

First off, Thanks to all for the great feedback!

The temp has been in the 64-68 degree range since starting. I measured 2 grams of the 11 grm packet as I had also read that too much yeast can give it an off flavor? I've heard of yeast nutrient, so will have to give that a try first. This is an ongoing but exciting education! Thanks everyone!

 

[MindenMan]

I missed the starting date, sorry about that as well as the 2 week stall. I would cold crash it, rack it off the lees, pitch EC-1118, and your problem should be solved. Since you want a carbonated cider, I would let the cider dry out as much as is possible before bottling. As I am sure you have read, a cider that is even lightly sweetened will taste more like apple. I am suggesting the use of a very small amount of a non-fermentable sweetener. It will not taste "fake" if a very small amount is used. If you do decide to sweeten it, sweeten it first, and then add priming sugar; otherwise you won't get an accurate flavor profile for your finished cider. Seeing as this is only your second batch of cider, I recommend against making a sweet, fizzy cider using a fermentable sweetener for both sweetening and carbonating.

 

[MarkKF]

When it says too much yeast they mean Way Too much yeast. Whether you pitch 11g or 2g shortly there will be a lot more yeast. One packet for 3-6 gal. is recommended. When I do one gal. batches I split one packet between two batches. No big deal. If you start with Notty I wouldn't switch to Champagne or Wine yeast. It will wipe out the flavor and any sweetness. Just my opinion.

 

[Maylar]

This is an interesting thread. I use Nottingham exclusively and have had batches go all the way to 0.995 and others stop at 1.002. But never at 1.020. Something's odd.

62-68°F is fine for Nottingham. And 2.2 gm (about 1 teaspoon) per gallon is perfect.

I would dump a bit of yeast nutrient into it and see if it starts up again. The one time I did that it made a serious volcano, so next time I would mix it with warm water and add slowly.

If that doesn't work, I guess I'd pursue the EC-1118 fix.