Grainfather!!

[JBurger538]

interesting, havent seen this yet, thank you for sharing

No problem. Thanks for trying to get something designed/built. Depending on what actually gets developed, I would be very interested in purchasing one for my GF.

 

[RedlegEd]

@RedlegEd did you see this post last night? do you think a preferred filter would have 2 threaded, removable caps with filtration holes, and possibly provide a benefit if the filter was slightly larger?

Sorry, no I didn't, but I think it's a great idea! The way I see it, the threaded cap(s) would have two very big benefits. First, it keeps you from knocking off the cap when stirring. Second, it makes for easy, thorough cleaning. If you (or anyone else,) gets this done, I'm in for one! Ed

 

[BrewBrains]

I'd be in for one also. That thing is 1 of the 3 big PITA issues with the GF. #2 is the ball valve thing and #3 is the gaskets on the perforated plates.

 

[elreplica]

Yeah, I've never had any real issues with the filter, perfed gaskets (wet, angle wiggle) or the ball valve...but I'd be interested - depending on the price of course!

 

[skraeling]

Ive had more luck not having the bottom overflow pipe on and having just the bottom perf plate and sliding that in vertically and doing the wiggle dance then putting the bottom pipe back on once its in. just easier. frankly ill weld the little turd in at some point.

 

[Minky]

I'd be in for one also. That thing is 1 of the 3 big PITA issues with the GF. #2 is the ball valve thing and #3 is the gaskets on the perforated plates.

When you say "the ball valve thing" are you referring to the removable ball-and-spring check valve? Frankly, I think that was added in order to satisfy the attorneys. Its only purpose is to keep you from accidentally spraying hot wort all over if you open the valve without having either the recirculation pipe or the chiller attached.

I removed the check valve and haven't even come close to making that mistake.

 

[PCL]

Great thread, thanks to all contributors. Bought my GF a year ago and it’s been fantastic, done about 25 batches. Without info from you all probably wouldn’t have made the plunge.

I’ve been through the thread and found some info but not an answer to this exact question/situation:

My pump seems to be failing (?) when using CFC. I get great flow rates through the recirc arm but I seem to get poor flow or at times failure of flow when pumping wort. Water/sanitizer/PBW seems to flow ok. I removed the ball valve as recommended which helped for a while but is getting worse again.

I use a hop spider which helps for a majority of hop trub but still do get coating of my filter which may be part of issue. Whirlpooling hasn’t helped. I have opened up piping and blown out he pipe/pump which doesn’t seem to help in these situations.

I guess I’m wondering what people’s algorithm is for troubleshooting a failure to pump wort through CFC? My first move is take CFC off and check valve, remove any debris, if none then I gently blow through the pipe/pump with a toomey syringe. I may use toomey to flush through any wort out of CFC in case the weight of that liquid in CFC is too much for pump to overcome (can that happen?—seems to for mine).

I’m open to all suggestions or people’s troubleshooting steps. Should I take apart pump to see if any debris inside it?

TIA brewers,

-PCL

 

[RedlegEd]

Great thread, thanks to all contributors. Bought my GF a year ago and it’s been fantastic, done about 25 batches. Without info from you all probably wouldn’t have made the plunge.

I’ve been through the thread and found some info but not an answer to this exact question/situation:

My pump seems to be failing (?) when using CFC. I get great flow rates through the recirc arm but I seem to get poor flow or at times failure of flow when pumping wort. Water/sanitizer/PBW seems to flow ok. I removed the ball valve as recommended which helped for a while but is getting worse again.

I use a hop spider which helps for a majority of hop trub but still do get coating of my filter which may be part of issue. Whirlpooling hasn’t helped. I have opened up piping and blown out he pipe/pump which doesn’t seem to help in these situations.

I guess I’m wondering what people’s algorithm is for troubleshooting a failure to pump wort through CFC? My first move is take CFC off and check valve, remove any debris, if none then I gently blow through the pipe/pump with a toomey syringe. I may use toomey to flush through any wort out of CFC in case the weight of that liquid in CFC is too much for pump to overcome (can that happen?—seems to for mine).

I’m open to all suggestions or people’s troubleshooting steps. Should I take apart pump to see if any debris inside it?

TIA brewers,

-PCL

Hi. After about 25 brews, you should probably take the pump out and clean the head thoroughly anyway, but I don't think that's the cause of your problem. You already stated that the flow rate is fine with the recirc arm and CFC with other liquids. Here's what I found to be a problem with my CFC when using to chill wort. The way the connectors are arranged on the CFC could lead to a pinch or restriction in the soft silicone wort intake or output hoses. I usually set my CFC on an empty keg next to the GF (putting it on the glass lid is begging for a boilover,) and then I'm very careful to ensure the in/out silicone hoses are absolutely free of kinks and/or pinches. The cooling water hoses are vinyl and a little more resistant to getting pinched. You may have to adjust the top & bottom connectors by twisting slightly (then retighten) to get the best angle for your hoses. Hope this helps. Ed

 

[PCL]

Hi. After about 25 brews, you should probably take the pump out and clean the head thoroughly anyway, but I don't think that's the cause of your problem. You already stated that the flow rate is fine with the recirc arm and CFC with other liquids. Here's what I found to be a problem with my CFC when using to chill wort. The way the connectors are arranged on the CFC could lead to a pinch or restriction in the soft silicone wort intake or output hoses. I usually set my CFC on an empty keg next to the GF (putting it on the glass lid is begging for a boilover,) and then I'm very careful to ensure the in/out silicone hoses are absolutely free of kinks and/or pinches. The cooling water hoses are vinyl and a little more resistant to getting pinched. You may have to adjust the top & bottom connectors by twisting slightly (then retighten) to get the best angle for your hoses. Hope this helps. Ed

Appreciate it Ed.

I have also noticed the wort inflow and outflow tubing is very susceptible to pinching. Good point. I have been pretty careful about that. Also setting the CFC on a keg next to GF also a good idea. It’s pretty annoying on top of the GF unit and hurts access to the boil especially when evaluating a problem.

Taking apart the pump is a good idea. Will look for some videos on that.

 

[RedlegEd]

Appreciate it Ed.

I have also noticed the wort inflow and outflow tubing is very susceptible to pinching. Good point. I have been pretty careful about that. Also setting the CFC on a keg next to GF also a good idea. It’s pretty annoying on top of the GF unit and hurts access to the boil especially when evaluating a problem.

Taking apart the pump is a good idea. Will look for some videos on that.

Hi @PCL . You can look for videos, but it is really, really easy. Pinch the top & bottom of the stainless pump housing, and it'll unclip from the body of the GF. There are two screws holding the pump on, and the little silicone connector hoses. Once you take care of those, the pump is out and you are free to remove the four screws holding the head and impeller on the pump body. Re-assemble in reverse. The orientation of the pump head is really obvious as won't go back together correctly any other way. You can watch this video on the GF upgrade, at about the 2:00 mark shows how to take the pump out. Hope it helps. Ed

 

[elproducto]

My grainfather connect suffered the infamous melted plug problem, 3 weeks before my 2 year warranty was up. Grainfather sent me an entire new unit, chiller and everything as a replacement. Good thing I kept my old controller, I now have two fully functioning GF's.

Great warranty, would like to see if Robobrew users get that.

 

[elreplica]

My grainfather connect suffered the infamous melted plug problem, 3 weeks before my 2 year warranty was up. Grainfather sent me an entire new unit, chiller and everything as a replacement. Good thing I kept my old controller, I now have two fully functioning GF's.

Great warranty, would like to see if Robobrew users get that.

Lol...now that...is service! Double barrelled Grainfather!

 

[MusicalBrewer]

I just finished my 4th brew on the Grainfather and am looking for some help.

To clarify, I've only read about 40% of this thread, so if I'm asking what's been answered I apologize. Just haven't had the the time to read everything.

My efficiency is only 63%. I got that to jump from 55% by increasing my grain crush. I'm crushing at .043. I fly sparge with a cooler positioned above the grain basket. Any advice on how to increase efficiency. I'm guessing it's operator error since others are getting significantly higher than me. (I'm talking specifically about grain efficiency - not brewhouse efficiency)

Also, this pump is absolutely worthless. The batch I just finished took me over an hour to cool 7 gallons of wort - and that was with just one ounce of hops. Has anyone found a replacement pump with the same footprint as the original pump? Or a better strainer to use?

Thanks in advance.

 

[thedon986]

I just finished my 4th brew on the Grainfather and am looking for some help.

To clarify, I've only read about 40% of this thread, so if I'm asking what's been answered I apologize. Just haven't had the the time to read everything.

My efficiency is only 63%. I got that to jump from 55% by increasing my grain crush. I'm crushing at .043. I fly sparge with a cooler positioned above the grain basket. Any advice on how to increase efficiency. I'm guessing it's operator error since others are getting significantly higher than me. (I'm talking specifically about grain efficiency - not brewhouse efficiency)

Also, this pump is absolutely worthless. The batch I just finished took me over an hour to cool 7 gallons of wort - and that was with just one ounce of hops. Has anyone found a replacement pump with the same footprint as the original pump? Or a better strainer to use?

Thanks in advance.

Hope I can chime in here and help. I've had mine about 1.5 years. I initially started with a .039 crush and no conditioning and was getting efficiency in the 60s. I narrowed it to something real low, .032 I think, and also started conditioning my grain. That bumped me up into the 70s and I am happy with that. I also take of the top plate and stir half way through. Conditioning has made a huge difference though and I will never not do it now.

I haven't had any issues with the pump so far. That is weird. I have brewed an NEIPA three times with 6.5oz of hops before chilling and it takes 30mins max. I really find no difference in chilling time between that or a recipe with 2oz in boil. Maybe call up Grainfather and ask. Also, just to be sure, your check valve on the pump output is fully open right? Just checking!

 

[jczippy]

I just finished my 4th brew on the Grainfather and am looking for some help.

To clarify, I've only read about 40% of this thread, so if I'm asking what's been answered I apologize. Just haven't had the the time to read everything.

My efficiency is only 63%. I got that to jump from 55% by increasing my grain crush. I'm crushing at .043. I fly sparge with a cooler positioned above the grain basket. Any advice on how to increase efficiency. I'm guessing it's operator error since others are getting significantly higher than me. (I'm talking specifically about grain efficiency - not brewhouse efficiency)

Also, this pump is absolutely worthless. The batch I just finished took me over an hour to cool 7 gallons of wort - and that was with just one ounce of hops. Has anyone found a replacement pump with the same footprint as the original pump? Or a better strainer to use?

Thanks in advance.

Are you going from the chiller right to the fermenter, or recirculating back to the boiler? Never had it take that long.

 

[PCL]

Hope I can chime in here and help. I've had mine about 1.5 years. I initially started with a .039 crush and no conditioning and was getting efficiency in the 60s. I narrowed it to something real low, .032 I think, and also started conditioning my grain. That bumped me up into the 70s and I am happy with that. I also take of the top plate and stir half way through. Conditioning has made a huge difference though and I will never not do it now.

I haven't had any issues with the pump so far. That is weird. I have brewed an NEIPA three times with 6.5oz of hops before chilling and it takes 30mins max. I really find no difference in chilling time between that or a recipe with 2oz in boil. Maybe call up Grainfather and ask. Also, just to be sure, your check valve on the pump output is fully open right? Just checking!

Do you whirlpool and let sit for 15 min before turning on pump? I was having pump issues and GF support recommended that to me. Even with using a hop spider I had hop debris coating my filter

 

[MusicalBrewer]

Hope I can chime in here and help. I've had mine about 1.5 years. I initially started with a .039 crush and no conditioning and was getting efficiency in the 60s. I narrowed it to something real low, .032 I think, and also started conditioning my grain. That bumped me up into the 70s and I am happy with that. I also take of the top plate and stir half way through. Conditioning has made a huge difference though and I will never not do it now.

I haven't had any issues with the pump so far. That is weird. I have brewed an NEIPA three times with 6.5oz of hops before chilling and it takes 30mins max. I really find no difference in chilling time between that or a recipe with 2oz in boil. Maybe call up Grainfather and ask. Also, just to be sure, your check valve on the pump output is fully open right? Just checking!

Wow, a finer crush and conditioning. I never would have come to that conclusion. Thanks for the input! My initial crush was .037 and I got 55%, and bumping it up to .043 got me 63%. I'll read up on conditioning and give that a try. Since my efficiency went up with the coarser crush I'm gonna try conditioning the coarser crush first. If I can get in the low to mid 70's with that I'll be happy and probably stick with that. If not then I'll start decreasing my crush till I get the results I want.

As far as the pump goes...well...total operator error. I had it throttled way back for the mash and never opened it up fully again. DOH! I didn't notice until I went to clean it. And the sad part is I wasn't even drinking at the time...

Hopefully I can get this dialed in over the next couple brews. Thanks for the input.

 

[thedon986]

Do you whirlpool and let sit for 15 min before turning on pump? I was having pump issues and GF support recommended that to me. Even with using a hop spider I had hop debris coating my filter

With the NEIPA, yes I whirlpool just with a stainless spoon every 5 minutes or so for a half hour. Other beers I don't and haven't had a clog yet. There is a lot of hop sludge that builds up on the screen, but I think it actually helps form more of a filter and the beer coming out of the chiller is nice and clear usually.

 

[thedon986]

Wow, a finer crush and conditioning. I never would have come to that conclusion. Thanks for the input! My initial crush was .037 and I got 55%, and bumping it up to .043 got me 63%. I'll read up on conditioning and give that a try. Since my efficiency went up with the coarser crush I'm gonna try conditioning the coarser crush first. If I can get in the low to mid 70's with that I'll be happy and probably stick with that. If not then I'll start decreasing my crush till I get the results I want.

As far as the pump goes...well...total operator error. I had it throttled way back for the mash and never opened it up fully again. DOH! I didn't notice until I went to clean it. And the sad part is I wasn't even drinking at the time...

Hopefully I can get this dialed in over the next couple brews. Thanks for the input.

No problem, I never tried a coarser crush, but once I saw how intact the hulls were with conditioning and how well the endosperm was broken up, I'll never go back. It's like have free rice hulls in your grist every time.

 

[MusicalBrewer]

No problem, I never tried a coarser crush, but once I saw how intact the hulls were with conditioning and how well the endosperm was broken up, I'll never go back. It's like have free rice hulls in your grist every time.

So curiosity got the best of me and I decided to run a test yesterday. I did some reading online and saw a lot of breweries use 1.5mm - 1.7mm crush (.059"-.066"). I set my mill gap at .058" with a feeler gauge and conditioned the malt. I tell you, I heard angels singing "Hallelujah" every time I went to check on the mash. I could actually run the pump wide open it was draining so well.

I had high hopes that my efficiency was going to increase...but alas, those hopes were dashed. 56% was the final result. I'm going to pick up 20# of grain today and run 2 or 3 more tests, each with a finer grain crush. I'm determined to find the grain crush that will give the best efficiency and still drain well.

And for those who don't condition your malt - I'd suggest you try it once and see for yourself. @thedon986 - I'll condition every time from now on!!

 

[RedlegEd]

So curiosity got the best of me and I decided to run a test yesterday. I did some reading online and saw a lot of breweries use 1.5mm - 1.7mm crush (.059"-.066"). I set my mill gap at .058" with a feeler gauge and conditioned the malt. I tell you, I heard angels singing "Hallelujah" every time I went to check on the mash. I could actually run the pump wide open it was draining so well.

I had high hopes that my efficiency was going to increase...but alas, those hopes were dashed. 56% was the final result. I'm going to pick up 20# of grain today and run 2 or 3 more tests, each with a finer grain crush. I'm determined to find the grain crush that will give the best efficiency and still drain well.

And for those who don't condition your malt - I'd suggest you try it once and see for yourself. @thedon986 - I'll condition every time from now on!!

Hi. I think that gap is too much for a homebrew situation. I suggest trying a closer gap + conditioning to see if your efficiency improves. I use a non-adjustable Schmidling Malt Mill with a factory setting of ~0.045". I condition my grain with ~3% water (by wt) about 24 hours before brewing, and mill right before mashing in. My Brewhouse efficiencies stay in the 78-82% range, sometimes higher if I increase my mash times. Good luck with your efforts. Ed

 

[a.pescador.garcia]

Sorry for the noob question, but what does conditioning mean? Are you mixing the grain with water prior to crush?

Just got a grainfather last week, first couple of batches went quite well, beautiful machine!

 

[thedon986]

Sorry for the noob question, but what does conditioning mean? Are you mixing the grain with water prior to crush?

Just got a grainfather last week, first couple of batches went quite well, beautiful machine!

Spritzing with water and mixing. 2% by weight (convert your grain bill to ounces and spritz with 2% of that with water). Spritz 5 or so pumps, mix, repeat till water is gone. I do it in a bucket but a wide, flat pan would be more efficient. Don't crush immediately after, give it at least 10 minutes. I've crushed too soon when in a rush and it left some gummed up spots on the rollers.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/2010/01/16/malt-conditioning/

 

[a.pescador.garcia]

Uoo, thanks for the advice, I will follow it next time I brew. There are actually a couple of things I have seen and don't like, after these two batches.
One is that the first metal bar, the one in the very bottom of the grain basket is scratched by the second bar. Picture enclosed

Also, the rubber protecting the bottom legs are suffering from some wear.

Are these issues normal, or something I should report to the seller? Thanks!

 

[RedlegEd]

Hi. I wouldn't bug your your seller over these minor issues. My overflow pipes also have small scratches and it makes no difference in their performance. Since you use them on the hot side, I wouldn't worry about any kind of sanitation issues. As for the little rubber coatings on the bottom legs....(mine didn't come with them - just plain SS.) These are used to keep the grain basket above the wort when draining, so I really don't even know why they started putting rubber on them (if it were me, I'd just remove the rubber so you don't get pieces in your beer.) Ed

 

[PCL]

With the NEIPA, yes I whirlpool just with a stainless spoon every 5 minutes or so for a half hour. Other beers I don't and haven't had a clog yet. There is a lot of hop sludge that builds up on the screen, but I think it actually helps form more of a filter and the beer coming out of the chiller is nice and clear usually.

Interesting. Do you use a hop spider or just throw all hops in boil? Pellets or whole cone?

I wonder if my hop spider/basket lets out only small particles which are more likely to clog the filter. Possibly better off not using basket?

 

[thedon986]

Interesting. Do you use a hop spider or just throw all hops in boil? Pellets or whole cone?

I wonder if my hop spider/basket lets out only small particles which are more likely to clog the filter. Possibly better off not using basket?

3oz right at flameout then chill to 160 and three more ozs. Whirlpooling with spoon every so often. The pump definitely runs slower than say a beer with 1oz in the boil total but it’s never clogged. I’d say it runs at 2/3 speed of lower hopped beers. Brewed that recipe three times over the past 1.5 years. When I clean off the filter I can’t pick out bigger from little hop particles. Just looks like uniform hop sludge.

 

[seabrew8]

Hi. I wouldn't bug your your seller over these minor issues. My overflow pipes also have small scratches and it makes no difference in their performance. Since you use them on the hot side, I wouldn't worry about any kind of sanitation issues. As for the little rubber coatings on the bottom legs....(mine didn't come with them - just plain SS.) These are used to keep the grain basket above the wort when draining, so I really don't even know why they started putting rubber on them (if it were me, I'd just remove the rubber so you don't get pieces in your beer.) Ed

Yeah really, who put those plastic guards over the grain baskets' feet?

First time reading this thread in a while and see this?!

My grainfather is going strong. Over 2 years now - maybe 15 or more sacks of base malt have gone through it. Just started using the pot still. Whiskey is challenging to make - corn whiskey.

 

[thehaze]

I never had any issue with clogged pump with the Grainfather and I use up to 6-8 oz just for the whirlpool in pelleted form.

For all my hoppy beers, I skip the bittering charge and start adding hops in the last 20 minutes or so. I employ quite a few additions as this has proven to improve the final flavour of the beer. I stopped throwing hops at flameout in a boiling hot wort. What I do, is kill the flame and I quickly cool down the wort to around 60-70C/140-158F. I then throw in the whirlpool hops, I take my SS paddle and stir gently, by creating a whirlpool in the kettle. I let it sit for 10 minutes. I come back and then I create a new whirlpool and let it sit for another 10-15 minutes. I come back, and simply transfer to fermenter.

By now, the temp. is so low, that the CFC will hardly do anything. Due to the lower temp and the whirlpool I created with my paddle and the rest for 30 minutes, the wort leaving the kettle is very clear. The pump will not clog and the hops and grain debris, are nicely settled at the bottom, and not interfering with the transfer. I used Brewtan B and Protafloc for my last 5 batches and it helped even more.

Efficiency is always between 75% and 85%, depending on the grain crush. A finer crush will cause some scorching at the bottom, but it is easily removed.

 

[murphyslaw]

I've been pricing out a 3 vessel electric system. Tired of the constant upgrade cycle, I didn't want to skimp on functionality or quality, but also wanted to keep the cost no higher than $1k. I ended up with preliminary plans for a kal clone with cheaper parts for about $1k....which puts me right in the range for the Grainfather.

The only downside with a grainfather seems to be limiting myself to 5g batches. While I was intrigued by being able to brew split 10g batches, its not something I see myself doing often. From reading through this thread, it seems like there really aren't any other "cons" to going with the grainfather. The simplicity of the system, and the small footprint, really appeal to me.

Someone in my homebrew club is selling his grainfather connect for $600. I may jump on that, though I am hesitant to get one without a warranty.