Grainfather!!
- Thread starter BrewMeister49
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I've got an STC too. The Wilhi is only a single stage. If you have a cooling device plugged into it, you would select the cooling mode. If you plug a heating device into it, you select heating mode. It's ideal for my HLT where I'm only heating, or my lager freezer where I'm only cooling (ambient temp never falls below freezing).
The STC is a dual stage. You can have both a cooling device AND a heading device plugged in at the same time. I use one on my fermentation fridge where I'm trying to maintain an exact 50 degrees. When the temp falls below, it switches on the heat. When the temp gets too high, it switches on the cooling.
Also, the wilhi comes ready-to-use. The STC had to be wired and installed into a project box. By the time you buy the rest of the parts, the costs are similar. So basically it comes down to what you are controlling and whether you feel like wiring one up or not (I didn't).
elreplica
Well-Known Member
GF sparge heater ordered and arriving next week. More shininess!
Well, just prepped the GF sparge heater and MJ hop basket with its first cleaning routine. I'm funny as I like to work in metric, US and Imperial...metric for weight and volume and Fahrenheit for temps soooo...here's an approximate time/ heat calibration for the sparge vessel. I set the dial (Celsius only) to the tick mark between 80-85C. My start temp (well H2O) was 47.2F. After 23 min. 103.5F. At 40 min. =141.1F. At 58 min. =179.5F. I overshot my sparge temp of 168F obviously and next run I'll dial it back closer to where it should've been, ie - 75C. This trial hopefully will save anyone using the GF Sparge heater a little time on dial in, as it will for me next brew session.
PS- my stove and old brew kettle did the trick in half the time but I wanted the liberty of brewing outside without having to run sparge water through the door. And I like shiny collections of things, kind of a crow thing I guess.
PPS - I also attached a meter (3.3 ft) of silicone tubing to the nozzle of the sparge vessel. Next I'll put a mini ball valve on the end to control the sparge flow level to around 1/2" (~1cm) during the strain.
I'll be curious about it, though without measuring the grain bed temp I'll temper my expectations. PID "could" be valuable during the mash, rest is get to and maintain boil. Maybe I'm missing what GF is suggesting their PID will control? Controlling their sparge heater would certainly add more value.
I think the greatest value in the entire brewing process for a PID is in the fermentation chamber. Some day I may go the way of the Brew Pi build here, talk about cool gadgetry!, or go with a 2nd probe on my STC 1000+ build. Decisions. And more critical brewing temp season is upon us now up North here!
I think the greatest value in the entire brewing process for a PID is in the fermentation chamber. Some day I may go the way of the Brew Pi build here, talk about cool gadgetry!, or go with a 2nd probe on my STC 1000+ build. Decisions. And more critical brewing temp season is upon us now up North here!
![Craft A Brew - Safale S-04 Dry Yeast - Fermentis - English Ale Dry Yeast - For English and American Ales and Hard Apple Ciders - Ingredients for Home Brewing - Beer Making Supplies - [1 Pack]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41fVGNh6JfL._SL500_.jpg)
What a PID primarily buys you is the fastest possible temperature transitions without overshoot. Maintaining a constant temperature is easy emough that a PID might narrow the band a little bit but not much. The ferm chamber should be fine without one. The STC is an example of a controller that will maintain temps well without a PID. The STC controls temperatures by doing about the same thing as the unit in the Grainfather now (plus dual mode and the programs of the + unit).
I understand the PID, but the use of it on the GF without maintaining the grain bed temp is useless to me. (Why I'm curious plans of GF for use).
The use in the FC is considerable to avoid overshoot and tighten temp fluctuations. I set STC to allow a 1.2F variability to avoid heat/cold cycling. Theoretically the beer temp can vary 2.4+F while fermenting. A PID will learn your chamber's performance and narrow that range to a few tenths of a degree. Required? Maybe not, but controls what I view as a critical time in the life of my emerging vat of joy!
At the time I bought my Chronical they didn't have that yet
So I built the FC to handle it. Fun project and works well (sans tighter control) but I may have wished I went that route. And you get to see your SS beauty! While mine is locked away....
Probably not. Most systems use a refrigeration compressor with a minimum cycle time measured in minutes rather than in milliseconds. It can't feather the cooling to zero in on a temperature. A second PID controlling heat could manage that phase well but cooling won't be precisely controlled unless a different cooling scheme is used. Even then you'd have to figure bout how to make the two PIDs interact without constant "hunting".
Lazer Wolf Brewing
Well-Known Member
Is anyone using some sort of filter on top of the overflow pipe? The couple times I decided to let wort go down the overflow pipe, I ended up with a ton of grain in the kettle. I'd like to put a stainless filter on and see if that solves the issue. I have a couple ideas of what I could use, but just wanted to see if you guys have had success with anything.
The best refrigeration control system so far is probably the one developed by fuzzywuzze. I don't care for his only because it's not really a PID controller. As an engineer I get annoyed with the whole "PID controls the best" thing.
As you stated, a PID controller can't control the compressor. The compressor is either off or on. There's no feedback loop that you can control the "effort" of the system because it will short cycle.
I also have an arduino that can control an entire brew system using PID controls while displaying the data through WiFi to my tablet. PID isn't pro, it's just the easiest to implement. It's only a few lines of code.
I'm not an engineer, and I thought I understood Fuzzy's build that the PID(?) controlled brew Pi would turn the heat & cool on and off while learning the drift of your beer (measured in a thermowell) within your FC. I know very little of PIDs, but this application seemed to be sensible and reduce my current STC 1000+ drift which is controlled, to some degree, by the setting of the hysteresis I input. The PID would learn when to shut off heat and cooling (before it reaches the set point) to avoid overshoot. Am I missing something here? I do understand the PID can only send a message to turn the heat/cool source on and off, but I was under the impression it learns your setup to narrow the setpoint range. Am I missing some technical point only, or will it not settle in to what I was expecting to be in the .1-.5 F range?
Also, I'd be interested in learning more about your arduino setup. I have one sitting around since I re-flashed my STC....
PID is a control structure, not really a "learning" structure. You can develop PID controllers with autotuners, which it does seem to have in his code, but still it isn't a true PID system. I am sure he is just using the term PID because homebrewers cream themselves over the term PID. He is basically using a feedback system to calculate the time that the compressor needs to run based off the current readings.
Model predictive control would be better suited for what he is doing, but like I said his is the best available controller as of current. In my free time I am working on developing a model predictive controller that will be free of BrewPi's outdated software. I will likely release it within the next year or two for free, but I am really busy and the project is behind schedule.
Happy brew day! I'm sitting here on the deck enjoying the 70+-degree temps and the first beer I ever brewed with the GF on 1/1/16, a Saison. Life is good!
View attachment 1460849989898.jpg
Grainfather stand almost complete
gotbeer74
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RockyMountainCraftBrewing
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Do you treat your kids with vintage BMX bikes?....Looks like a Mongoose and a Diamondback in the picture.
RMCB
Dang the silver bike is an old Red Line that was my oldest sons when he was younger he is now 19 so yes that one is vintage. And the other one is a kink that is newer it it is my youngest sons
The sparse water deck is 16 in X 18 in. My 5 gallon igloo cooler fits perfect
I think he was referring to the sparge water "vessel" that you had sitting on your new stand in the photo you posted of it, lol!
RockyMountainCraftBrewing
Well-Known Member
A package of 50 4"X6" drawstring cotton bags I bought off Ebay for $10 with shipping included.That works out to 20 cents per bag and they can be used many times till the wear out.The LHBS want $5 for the exact same thing.I am glad I can be patient when it comes to things like this.
I have used these before but I ran out.Pour in an ounce or two of pellet hops and pull the drawstring tight and then wrap the strings tightly around in opposite directions and then tie a bow and drop it in to the boil.Very good hop usage and no junk to clog up the filter.
They work great for dry hopping as well.Same thing but add in a ping pong ball so the bag floats as it delivers it's hoppy goodness
though the ping pong ball innovation was the brain child of the late great Paul Wickstead of New Zealand....RIP Paul.....I shall pour a glass to your memory tonight 
RMCB
I have used these before but I ran out.Pour in an ounce or two of pellet hops and pull the drawstring tight and then wrap the strings tightly around in opposite directions and then tie a bow and drop it in to the boil.Very good hop usage and no junk to clog up the filter.
They work great for dry hopping as well.Same thing but add in a ping pong ball so the bag floats as it delivers it's hoppy goodness
though the ping pong ball innovation was the brain child of the late great Paul Wickstead of New Zealand....RIP Paul.....I shall pour a glass to your memory tonight RMCB
After 8 relatively trouble-free brewing sessions with my Grainfather, I became careless on the 9th one. Without realizing it, I turned the controller switch to boil instead of to the temperature-controlled setting for mashing and, while getting my sparge water ready, didn't notice until too late that the mash temperature had risen to 183 degrees F. Not knowing exactly what to do, I simply turned the heat off and it gradually cooled to about 170 after an hour's worth of mashing. I continued as I would normally with sparging, boiling, chilling, etc., and ended up with an SG going into the fermenter within just a couple of points of what I expected. My question is this: will the beer be drinkable? Or should I simply dump it? This was a small batch using the new micro pipework: 6 lbs. of grain for a 3-gallon batch.
elreplica
Well-Known Member
Of course it will be drinkable. 170 is kind of high for mash temps and likely played havoc with your sugars conversion. But hey, single infusion at 167 isn't too far off so while the style might not be what it was profiled as, it most certainly will be drinkable. As they often acronym here...RDWDAHB...or something to that effect
