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scallopking said:
this is where I'm confused now, never went over post-boil gravity (or original gravity if I am correct). What is the abv, ibu impact of going from 1.060 to 1.066? ... now I'm thinking how did it happen? could that be from boiling off too much wort? I didn't get volume after the boil but I've been doing the same 90/90 on a few batches now.... could it be from having better crush and efficiency and with a longer mash/boil caused it to go up. I'll admit I'm not the best on this. I understand what they are but translating that in and out of Beersmith for estimated and actuals is another thing for me. :)

also I'm using the GF profile add-on in beersmith but immediately found the mash sparge waters didn't match so modified it to the point where they are very close. as I side note, I wonder how that might be throwing off recipe vs. what I actually get. anyone have a real good profile match for the GF in beersmith? thanks again.
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ABV impact of 6 pts higher starting, assuming same ending gravity (and that may be a big assumption!) is ~0.8%. ABV is ~ 1.3125* change in OG & FG.
Lots of variables on why. As I recently read, being in the NE US, the drier winter will evaporate wort quicker than the humid summer, so that's one factor when comparing across time at least, and with the GF I'd expect consistent boil off rates, all other things being equal, its not like w/propane where one batch you rip it, another you don't. Yes, if you change your crush, you will absolutely change your gravity potential, so if your question surrounds other input changes than it will be more to consider as well. I am finding that with the GF its fine to have a fine crush (all the BIAB folks here already knew that I suppose!).

I like the idea of working with the GF profile in beersmith. I haven't done that, nor have used the GF online measurements, I figure they are no different than in the manual, but will check. I do think the GF is overshooting the required water. At least by a 1/2 g on 60 min boil, maybe its targeted to 90, however you indicated you go 90 min. and still overshoot volume? More to consider, so gee, thanks!! :)
 
I was at a point where I was going to have to convert my keggle system into a HERMS or a RIMS to do indoor brewing. Thus the Grainfather was my choice to keep things simple.

I have 5 brews under my belt now with the Grainfather using an adjusted profile in Beersmith. I built my profile around some suggestions found on threads here and other websites. So far my brews have come in under my target OG's with a 70% efficiency set. However, I don't think this has been a fault of Beersmith but more as a fault of improper sparging. It took 5 brews to finally figure out that sparging the Grainfather is not like sparging a keggle or cooler with a sparge arm. One must let the wort drain first is what was killing my efficiency. I figured this out by doing a gravity test on the wort that had dripped out of the grain in my container after removing the grains. So I have not been effectively rinsing the grains and instead I have been diluting the wort. That problem has been noted so I expect better efficiency in the next brew... should have read the instructions carefully.

For water profiles I have been using the Grainfather website to calculate my water.

Noting some of the topics regarding the overflow tube... I have yet to have very much wort go through the overflow. I have even had an 18 lbs grain bill (with rice hulls because I had wheat in my grain bill) and the wort flowed nicely through the grain bed. So I am assuming the temp in the grain bed has been pretty even through the process.

So far it has met my expectations in brewing 5 gallon batches. I still have my gravity system should I desire to brew a 10 gallon batch of something. But brewing indoors and not in the garage has been very fun. It is nice to be able to brew and watch a ball game on TV at the same time.
 
Tang10 said:
Sorry if you think I'm trying to fix something. My question is to you or anyone else in this thread, have you taken a temperature reading of the grain bed with a thermometer? This isn't rocket science as someone said earlier, but a very basic concept in brewing a batch of beer.

I mashed last Sunday for over 2 hours just so I could test the grain bed temp. With good amount of wort flowing down the overflow pipe, you will fall short of correct/maintaining mash temps.

I've been brewing all grain for over 10 years, this principle for all grain is about as basic as it gets. I'm not talking about being off the the target temp 1 or 2 degrees. I set the controller for a 149 degrees and started testing..........2 hours later the grain bed finally got to 147 from starting point of 138. The controller is fine, it reads 149 plus or minus a degree. The wort flowing out of the return arm is reading around 149 or so. Does nothing for you if it goes down the overflow pipe. I see the overflow pipe as the safety in the system if you step away from the system for a few minutes.

I'm gathering that Grain father users are gauging success on clear wort at the end.

Please don't take my comments/observations as threats to how the Grain Father works for you. I'm really trying to make what is a good product out of the box a great brewing system.

Sorry

Jamie
Click to expand...

No worries! Thats why I put a ;-) at the end of that statement....that is a winky face ;) but was on my phone and didn't see how to add one as I just did now from my desktop. :p

So how deep down are you measuring your grain bed temp out of curiosity?

HCbrewing said:
The whole point of controlling mash temp is to hit certain final gravities at the end of fermentation. If people are hitting their expected FG, does it matter if the grain bed temp is different than the wort temp? I think not.
Click to expand...

This is my point.

I have been all grain brewing via MANY MANY different setups for 8 years now. I've tried to get as precise and complex as I can get but at the end of the day, consistency has always eluded me. I think the GF will help get me closer to this goal. I have never hit my anticipated numbers dead on like I have with the GF. If I am expecting 75% efficiency and an OG of say 1.064 and I hit exactly that, that is what I am looking for. If my mash temp is set at 151º and it reads between 148º and 153º during the mash, I am okay with that at this point in my brewing "career". There was a time that I would have gone crazy over that. Now, not so much. :D
 
mos13gman said:
To Yambor44: Just thought I'd throw it out there that in my experience, beer always tastes better in a keg if you can stand waiting 30 days. My beers taste ok (green) after a week of conditioning; but really, they take on an all new personality if you can wait a month--perhaps even two in higher gravity cases like IPA. If your beer gets rid of the hefe taste when you wait, then maybe waiting is the key.
Click to expand...

Interesting because there was a time I would try and keep my pipeline going so that a beer would be 2-3 months old from the date of brewing before it hit the tap. I brew only IPA's now (for several years) and felt like the hop flavor and aroma were always lacking.

I did some research and found many to believe that IPA's are meant to be consumed fresh which is why I sold of about 1/2 of my 16 ball lock kegs and focused on keeping things fresher. IME that has been my findings. Weird.
 
Yambor44 said:
No worries! Thats why I put a ;-) at the end of that statement....that is a winky face ;) but was on my phone and didn't see how to add one as I just did now from my desktop. :p

So how deep down are you measuring your grain bed temp out of curiosity?



This is my point.

I have been all grain brewing via MANY MANY different setups for 8 years now. I've tried to get as precise and complex as I can get but at the end of the day, consistency has always eluded me. I think the GF will help get me closer to this goal. I have never hit my anticipated numbers dead on like I have with the GF. If I am expecting 75% efficiency and an OG of say 1.064 and I hit exactly that, that is what I am looking for. If my mash temp is set at 151º and it reads between 148º and 153º during the mash, I am okay with that at this point in my brewing "career". There was a time that I would have gone crazy over that. Now, not so much. :D
Click to expand...

Each of my tests involved a quick stir and a measurement with a 6 inch digital thermometer. This is a really simple test for people to try. That was what I was hoping for with feedback.

100% agree if it falls within a few degrees of set temp, I'm fine.
 
rawlus said:
Whirlpooling and letting it sit for 10min or so before beginning chilling/pumping will leave most of the hop and trub materials in a central cone and you won't have as many clog issues.. Removing the safety spring when it comes time to chill also removes further restriction (I've left mine out permanently)
No issues even with massive hop loads.
Click to expand...

Which safety spring are you referring to?
 
I thought a few pics of how I have my "Father" setup for sparging would be a change from talking about mash temps.

Any suggests for improving how I sparge? I use a 1500 watt heat stick in the sparge tank to heat the water while I mash for 60 minutes.

Jamie

IMG_20160302_163217110.jpg


IMG_20160302_163228018.jpg
 
Tybalthophead said:
Which safety spring are you referring to?
Click to expand...


Its the little ball and spring you see inside the top of the ball valve. Its basically a check valve so wort doesn't overflow when you remove the arm or chiller. Sometimes it gets clogged up with hop debris. You should check every so often IMO or remove it.
 
seabrew8 said:
Its the little ball and spring you see inside the top of the ball valve. Its basically a check valve so wort doesn't overflow when you remove the arm or chiller. Sometimes it gets clogged up with hop debris. You should check every so often IMO or remove it.
Click to expand...

You should actually remove it and clean it out after each use IMO.
 
Tang10 said:
I thought a few pics of how I have my "Father" setup for sparging would be a change from talking about mash temps.

Any suggests for improving how I sparge? I use a 1500 watt heat stick in the sparge tank to heat the water while I mash for 60 minutes.

Jamie
Click to expand...


That is a nice set up
 
Nice setup Jamie! I see the lid would prevent you from seeing the top plate, but do you peek to see if you're maintaining an even level (GF recommends .4"", must be a metric conversion issue that its not 1/2"! :) ? I try to keep it reasonably in that range. My plan has been to set up my kettle to sparge into the GF and was considering employing my old SS braid to spread out the water, but your set up is much nicer than that!

As for your thermometer, I have one of those and used to try it for my cooler mash temps but found it would wildly fluctuate, so I abandoned it altogether. Drove me nuts. I wonder if that may be part of the issues you see. Have you been able to calibrate the probe?

Good points on the temp in the mash, but this sure has me wondering. I still wonder if anyone has done any calibrations with the GF? Part of the reason I intend to replace this STC with a STC 1000+ (program hack thread on HBT) is to add calibration as well as programming for a complete step mash / mash out. I like tinkering, though I really like the all-in one GF and sleek simple design.
 
I just take a peek and adjust the ball valve to maintain the correct level as the HLT drains. Seems to work slick. I like the heat stick in the HLT, not need to heat a pot on a stove. I just fill GrainFather and the HLT to the correct levels and put the heat stick in the HLT at the start and its ready when a need to start sparging.

I haven't tried the oven style thermometer yet, but I'm hoping it gives me a good ball park what the temp is at in the mash tun. The 6 inch digital thermometer is calibrated that I was testing with last weekend.

My digital thermometer says to calibrate it by putting water and crushed ice in a glass. The temperature should read 32F if its calibrated correct. I might try this with the GrainFather probe to see how close it is.
 
I would think the best way to calibrate your probes in this case would be the boiling water test.

Water boils at 212° F at sea level. So I test my brewing and grilling thermos by heating up 4-5" of water to a boil and submerging the read point of the thermo probe.
 
Yambor44 said:
I would think the best way to calibrate your probes in this case would be the boiling water test.

Water boils at 212° F at sea level. So I test my brewing and grilling thermos by heating up 4-5" of water to a boil and submerging the read point of the thermo probe.
Click to expand...

That should work. I would account for altitude if your using boiling water as a reference.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/boiling-points-water-altitude-d_1344.html

That's why some companies use the ice method I'm thinking.
 
Tang10 said:
That should work. I would account for altitude if your using boiling water as a reference.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/boiling-points-water-altitude-d_1344.html

That's why some companies use the ice method I'm thinking.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's why I said at sea level. IMO, if you are primarily using a thermo for cooler temps then use the ice method. Ice method though leaves a lot of variables. Ice needs to be crushed, no pockets in ice, stirred while calibrating Etc.

When using thermometers for hot applications, I think the book test is mo betta!
 
I was under the impression you check both freezing and boiling points. For freezing you have to almost have an ice slurry to check correctly- so not just a bunch of cubes in a glass of water, but well crushed ice in a slurry (per Thermoworks)- doh! just read last post fully! Perfectly put. For GF test, I would just compare STC output with a well calibrated thermometer. I keep thinking this and have yet to do it. Lazy! But guess beer has been good so.... oh, 'cept for that yellow water I just made (no fault of GF, just pilot error). I figure if its total watery mess at least I created a good yeast harvest bank!
 
Yambor44 said:
I would think the best way to calibrate your probes in this case would be the boiling water test.

Water boils at 212° F at sea level. So I test my brewing and grilling thermos by heating up 4-5" of water to a boil and submerging the read point of the thermo probe.
Click to expand...

This is why I want to calibrate the STC. I figured at my 360' elevation the boiling pt is ~212, here with interpolation its closer to 211.2, and yet the STC will begin a boil around 212 (good) but then will read up to 214. Possibly its due to the sugars in the water, so a test with plain water is in the works! It may end up being just fine.
 
Do you do practice this all the time? Is DMS an issue for you boiling partially covered? I did that in the beginning and on the GF forum was advised against and to leave the lid completely off. Just curious. Nice idea, the lid definitely needs a handle. I use tongs through the hole in the top to get to move it.
 
I use an oven mitt - I stick the thumb through the hole in the center with no problems. I used to put the lid on top of my hopspider during boil - it raised it up enough to let steam escape and get me up to 214*. Now I've found once I'm at 214 I can take the lid off and it will stay there... if it drops to 213 I put it on for another minute or so and it ramps back up to 214*.

I also just listened to the Beersmith podcast about boiling and they were pretty explicit about not having any kind of cover during the boil - although I will say that I have not noticed any DMS flavors.

This weekend will be my first brew with the graincoat, so I am interested to see how that effects everything.
 
The only thing that is stopping me from buying this system is not knowing how much it can handle. What's the most you guys have done?
 
Kampenken said:
ABV impact of 6 pts higher starting, assuming same ending gravity (and that may be a big assumption!) is ~0.8%. ABV is ~ 1.3125* change in OG & FG.
Lots of variables on why. As I recently read, being in the NE US, the drier winter will evaporate wort quicker than the humid summer, so that's one factor when comparing across time at least, and with the GF I'd expect consistent boil off rates, all other things being equal, its not like w/propane where one batch you rip it, another you don't. Yes, if you change your crush, you will absolutely change your gravity potential, so if your question surrounds other input changes than it will be more to consider as well. I am finding that with the GF its fine to have a fine crush (all the BIAB folks here already knew that I suppose!).

I like the idea of working with the GF profile in beersmith. I haven't done that, nor have used the GF online measurements, I figure they are no different than in the manual, but will check. I do think the GF is overshooting the required water. At least by a 1/2 g on 60 min boil, maybe its targeted to 90, however you indicated you go 90 min. and still overshoot volume? More to consider, so gee, thanks!! :)
Click to expand...

thanks! my experience the GF boil off is consistent hence why I was surprised it happened. I've been doing 90 min boils for about 3-4 batches now and only non-constant was the mill. I use the online calculators but haven't crossed checked yet either. next time might see what the same mill does with a 60/60 approach. with milling at the LHBS I had it fairly dialed and new what to expect so now I need to adjust. :)
 
Grzebyk26 said:
The only thing that is stopping me from buying this system is not knowing how much it can handle. What's the most you guys have done?
Click to expand...

Buy it!! :) I love this GF!

I do 6g batches with the largest grain bill at 15.5 pounds so far. Largest hop addition has been 5.6oz I think.
 
MeanLowerLow said:
I use an oven mitt - I stick the thumb through the hole in the center with no problems. I used to put the lid on top of my hopspider during boil - it raised it up enough to let steam escape and get me up to 214*. Now I've found once I'm at 214 I can take the lid off and it will stay there... if it drops to 213 I put it on for another minute or so and it ramps back up to 214*.

I also just listened to the Beersmith podcast about boiling and they were pretty explicit about not having any kind of cover during the boil - although I will say that I have not noticed any DMS flavors.

This weekend will be my first brew with the graincoat, so I am interested to see how that effects everything.
Click to expand...

Exactly what I did before rest the lid on the hop spider. I noticed no change going from two wraps of reflectix to the grain coat, btw. that said I like the coat much better. easy on/off. cleaning and after the left the reflectix on too long and removed it the spill melted onto the outside of the GF and took a little elbow grease to remove it.
 
Kampenken said:
This is why I want to calibrate the STC. I figured at my 360' elevation the boiling pt is ~212, here with interpolation its closer to 211.2, and yet the STC will begin a boil around 212 (good) but then will read up to 214. Possibly its due to the sugars in the water, so a test with plain water is in the works! It may end up being just fine.
Click to expand...

Grainfather has commented on this, the readout at near boiling teams is not as accurate as they chose a controller to be accurate at mashing temps... Since the controller is bypassed at boiling you can literally ignore the readout on the controller.

Boiling is boiling...

If you do want to calibrate the controller, I would do so at 150* with a high grade thermometer. I have not seen a need.
 
Grzebyk26 said:
The only thing that is stopping me from buying this system is not knowing how much it can handle. What's the most you guys have done?
Click to expand...

Its holds ~30 liters. The most grain i've used was 14.5# but the specs said you can get use up to ~20# so you would have to use around 28L to mash that. The sparge would be very small of course.

From what i read it would be a little tricky to make barleywine without added extract/sugar.
 
seabrew8 said:
What are you doing man! Its not pretty anymore. :confused:

I just use a thick glove or cloth but whatever floats your boat. :mug:
Click to expand...

Sorry, thought we were making great beer not entering a beauty contest....read the video description on YT. :tank:

No need to put a glove on for hop additions. Still not sure if I am going to leave it on as I may not leave the lid partially on during the boil. There is enough steam escaping so I don't think DMS is a worry. Boil off was better as well. This particular beer is cold crashing at the moment and will be kegged either tis evening or tomorrow so jury is still out on whether it made a negative/positive impact.
 
I brewed up Yoopers stout and now it's all ready to drink! Just plain amazing. For those who don't know about it, look it up. Best oatmeal stout out there!! I used 100% bottled water too and it made all the difference as I felt my chlorine was affecting the flavors as well. Amazing stout!
 
gspot said:
+1. Welcome to the brotherhood!
Click to expand...

+1 to that sentiment :mug:

You are no longer a home brewer.You will not suffer stuck mashes or stuck sparges.You will not be beset with poor efficiency or cloudy wort.You will not suffer a boilover because of a flame set too high nor will you run out of gas at a critical time.Your wort shall be clear and consistent brew after brew after brew.You will hit your gravites with true marksmanship and you will cherish that brilliant piece of brewing genius hardware.That beautifull amalgamation of stainless steel and plastic and electronic components that is absolute simplicty.You will lovingly clean it after each brew as well as the wicked CF chiller as it is your duty to do so.

Your are part of a Brotherhood indeed.You are no longer a home brewer Elkobrewer...you are now a Craft Brewer and you will piss excellence :mug:

^the above said in the voice of the drill sergeant in Full Metal Jacket :mug:

Best money you have ever spent :rockin::rockin:

RMCB
 

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