I have two functional concerns that may end up being a big deal. First, can we batch sparge in this unit? Second, I know not many people are too concerned about hot side aeration, but that's a lot of port splashing when you first pull the green basket out of the cattle and it drops the whole length of the unit.
Grainfather Kickstarter
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It pretty much is BIAB with recirc...so all the same rules and limitations apply.
I would like to know how this system handles pellet hops. Will it clog the pump? Do I have to use a hops bag?
Grainfather
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We commonly use hop pellets in NZ so the Grainfather is used to that sort of thing. There is a good pump filter so you don't need to worry about hop debris. We also don't use hop bags or hop spiders generally at Grainfather, but that is of course up to your personal preference. We feel you get a better circulation when it is not in a bag.
hugemc
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did my first brew on the grainfather on sunday. 40g of hop pellets and with no whirlpool (was in a hurry) had a fair amount of hop buildup on the filter however the wort still pushed through no problems, just a bit slower.
great bit of kit, very easy to use. clear wort, great efficiency. easy cleanup. winwinwinwin
great bit of kit, very easy to use. clear wort, great efficiency. easy cleanup. winwinwinwin
I'm really interested in scrapping my own plans for an electric setup for something like this or the Braumeister with what I've been reading.
For such a price-point my only hesitation remains with some of the comments earlier - 1600W can boil 7-8 gallons? (at least enough?)
Are there options to purchase the 2000W version and I can make the appropriate adjustments on my end? For the Braumeister, for instance, I was planning on getting a step-up transformer to tackle 220V.
For such a price-point my only hesitation remains with some of the comments earlier - 1600W can boil 7-8 gallons? (at least enough?)
Are there options to purchase the 2000W version and I can make the appropriate adjustments on my end? For the Braumeister, for instance, I was planning on getting a step-up transformer to tackle 220V.
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HopRodGR
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I had never even though of that. So in theory, I think something like this should work. Shipping from NZ to the US seems cost prohibitive though, but perhaps not.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CLYMMCC/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
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Keep in mind, that you still would need 2 KW + some overhead for the transformer. I'm thinking that you really wouldn't want a circuit with less than 3KW, which means that at 120v you would need a 25A circuit. A 20A 120v circuit would only be 2.4KW, which might not be enough, and your standard 15A 120v would definitely not work. In most cases, it would make more sense to have the proper 220v circuit run to where you want to use this than to use a transformer like that.
That particular transformer looks suspect to me as well. It has a NEMA 5-15 plug, which is only rated for 15A. You would need a NEMA 5-30 plug for a device that pulls up to 25A.
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HopRodGR
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That's a fair point, and a lot of workaround to pick up 400 watts. It would have been plugged into a 20amp circuit, which should be enough, but, who knows if you'd actually be pushing 2000w to the unit itself.
Based on all the feedback I've seen from users of 120v electric systems, I still think insulating the unit should yield dividends in shorter ramp times and a better boil. Much easier to do as well.
The transformer I had in mind was this one.
From what I've read that should be more than enough and last for at least a few years.
But, after doing some more research on my end, I've decided that this price is too good to pass up considering my own plans of an electric setup had costs that tallied slightly less than this system. I'm hoping a creation of a sleeve/jacket can make up some ground on the boil.
The only downside now is the wait... Here's hoping to a faster delivery date
From what I've read that should be more than enough and last for at least a few years.
But, after doing some more research on my end, I've decided that this price is too good to pass up considering my own plans of an electric setup had costs that tallied slightly less than this system. I'm hoping a creation of a sleeve/jacket can make up some ground on the boil.
The only downside now is the wait... Here's hoping to a faster delivery date
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The transformer linked there says it's a 220v input and 120/220v output, so you would not be able to use 120v input power and a 220v output.The transformer I had in mind was this one.
From what I've read that should be more than enough and last for at least a few years.
But, after doing some more research on my end, I've decided that this price is too good to pass up considering my own plans of an electric setup had costs that tallied slightly less than this system. I'm hoping a creation of a sleeve/jacket can make up some ground on the boil.
The only downside now is the wait... Here's hoping to a faster delivery date
Standard 120v 15a power is 1800W max. 120v 20A is 2400W max. There is no getting around that. The description on the transformer above even says you would want 1.5x the wattage of what you want to use on the output, so to power a 2000W Grainfather you would need 3000W input power, which would be 25A on 120v. I have never seen >20A 120v circuits anywhere (they do exist, just not common). Higher wattage circuits are almost always 220v, as in the ones for electric stoves and clothes dryers. In other words, these transformers are uncommon because they are useful only in unusual circumstances.
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HopRodGR
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Well, the Kickstarter funded at almost 3x the original goal, looks like 147 units total. Congrats to everyone who got in. It's gonna be a long 3 (hopefully) months waiting to brew on this thing the first time.
DaveSeattle
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Will it need a 20 amp circuit? It's hard to get a good boil using 15a 110v, but if you succeeded that'd be awesome.
Full automation is a key feature for me. I currently have a BrewTroller but it's flaky and I'm in the market for a replacement. I'd also like automated sparge water. Of course I expect to pay for these privileges.
Full automation is a key feature for me. I currently have a BrewTroller but it's flaky and I'm in the market for a replacement. I'd also like automated sparge water. Of course I expect to pay for these privileges.
Well, then, pretty much nothing listed about this system meets your (real or perceived) needs. You might want to read the earlier posts.
This is basically a 15 amp recirculating BIAB system with text alerts. The automation is limited to hitting manually entered setpoints...one setpoint at a time.
DaveSeattle
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Ah, sorry about that, was reading on a phone and missed that this was page 8! My second paragraph was intended as product feedback - I know the current product doesn't have those options, but they were mentioned as possibilities for future developments, so I was letting the builders know that I for one am interested.
arctic_blizzard
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I just got an updated email from them, they put the US version through some tests @ US 110v/60Hz, this was the result:
- Time to strike temp was 34min
- Time to boil was 57min
- Overall brew time from start to finish was about 4.5 hours.
I imagine that the strike/boil times could be reduced by insulating the kettle.
I looked at your kick starter page; there are two immediate problems with this:
1. Yeah, you can probably boil (barely) 5 gallons, but most 5.5 gallon batches (to get 5 in the keg) will have about 7 gallons for a 90 minute boil. I have a dual 1650 watt element boil kettle - I can tell you with just one element running you cannot get a proper roiling boil uncovered. DMS is removed with the boil-off, uncovered. Had the same experience with a 110V electric turkey fryer, years ago. Even with insulation, you couldn't really get it going reasonably. Fortunately I returned it.
Perhaps you get it boiling because of the aspect ratio of the boil pot - i.e. - very tall and narrow. But that defeats the purpose of the DMS reduction. It's why best boil kettles are a 1.2 to 1 (height to diameter) ratio.
The second problem is temperature control. Really should have a PID controller or better on it to control overshoot. That and a better pump (really? 6 watts?) and a 240V system (or smaller stated capacity) would allow mash out and stepped mashes.
Yep, you can make beer with this. But with limitations. Spending big bucks should not cripple you over what you can achieve with a 10 gallon cooler, a cheap propane burner, and a 10 gallon pot.
Kinda blows me away sometimes how everyone will invest in kickstarter campaigns that "sound good". But there is frequently a lack of thoughtfull engineering and/or marketing that go into well designed products, like Blichman, for example. The 1600 watts comprimise to work with the 120V US market is a big fail in my opinion. People brew in cold weather, in garages, and even 2000 watts is a challenge for some, let alone 1600.
1. Yeah, you can probably boil (barely) 5 gallons, but most 5.5 gallon batches (to get 5 in the keg) will have about 7 gallons for a 90 minute boil. I have a dual 1650 watt element boil kettle - I can tell you with just one element running you cannot get a proper roiling boil uncovered. DMS is removed with the boil-off, uncovered. Had the same experience with a 110V electric turkey fryer, years ago. Even with insulation, you couldn't really get it going reasonably. Fortunately I returned it.
Perhaps you get it boiling because of the aspect ratio of the boil pot - i.e. - very tall and narrow. But that defeats the purpose of the DMS reduction. It's why best boil kettles are a 1.2 to 1 (height to diameter) ratio.
The second problem is temperature control. Really should have a PID controller or better on it to control overshoot. That and a better pump (really? 6 watts?) and a 240V system (or smaller stated capacity) would allow mash out and stepped mashes.
Yep, you can make beer with this. But with limitations. Spending big bucks should not cripple you over what you can achieve with a 10 gallon cooler, a cheap propane burner, and a 10 gallon pot.
Kinda blows me away sometimes how everyone will invest in kickstarter campaigns that "sound good". But there is frequently a lack of thoughtfull engineering and/or marketing that go into well designed products, like Blichman, for example. The 1600 watts comprimise to work with the 120V US market is a big fail in my opinion. People brew in cold weather, in garages, and even 2000 watts is a challenge for some, let alone 1600.
HopRodGR
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Wow, that's quite the rant, very impressive. I was skeptical of the boil-off too but after showing the video that was posted on the Kickstarter page to several folks in my HB club who said it looked sufficient, I relented that I was obsessing over a detail. With the kettle geometry, I'm confident some insulation will help it, but that's yet to be seen.
Might want to check out this Facebook group. It's a newer product so it hasn't been without a few hiccups along the way, but there's a demonstrated level of success in the AU/NZ market.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1557967401104380/
The down under market does 2000 watts. In the electric forum some claim 2000 watts works, although I'd not be happy with it.
I'm an old brewer who started in 1981. I've had to replace too much equipment over the years to buy anything again that costs less but "sorta" does it. Would have saved a bunch load of money by doing it right the first time. Whether a 7.5 vs 10 gallon boil pot, a 5 vs 10 gallon igloo mash tun, small vs large siphon, a tap-a-draft vs a real kegging system, small cooling coil vs large, glass vs plastic fermenter, when you switch you'll wonder how you got by.
Do some searches in the Electric forum section on peoples experiences on lower watts.
How about this concept. The Kickstarter is long over, correct? Let's wait for those who take delivery to report back.
I think the Picobrew thing is a joke but those that purchased it, for the most part, have reported it meets their expectations.
Being a "voice of reason and experience" after the fact makes you just look petty and bitter. Especially when you keep fighting.
If the thing sucks, you will be an internet god. If the thing is awesome, you will never return to eat crow.
And no, did not purchase one and had no interest in one more than idle curiousity.
I've been using the 2Kw system here in NZ since it started and I couldn't be happier to be honest. For someone like me, who lives in a small apartment, it's great.
If you are convinced you won't be happy with it, don't buy it, simple. I've made a lot of great beer on it, and the only issues I've had were with a clamp that wasn't seated properly causing it to spray out of the CFC when under pressure. The people at Grainfather replaced it with no fuss.
Like others have said, when people take delivery they will either love it or hate it. It will either succeed in the US like it has elsewhere, or it will fail. I personally don't care either way, as mine works great and suits my needs. I've made great beer on it, and I'm happy with it, that's what is important to me.
I guess everyone should just get off your lawn and let you get back to your way of doing things, like you have since '81. Oh wait, you are on someone else's lawn pissing all over it, even though you've never even used the product.
Grainfather
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Following a successful Kickstarter campaign the Grainfather is launching soon in USA and Canada.
Our website is now taking preorders.
We have limited stock in our first shipment so once sold out we won't be selling more until the next shipment arrives.
ETA for delivery of this first shipment will be late July with Kickstarter orders taking priority.
Our website is now taking preorders.
We have limited stock in our first shipment so once sold out we won't be selling more until the next shipment arrives.
ETA for delivery of this first shipment will be late July with Kickstarter orders taking priority.
Do you recommend this unit? Still love it? I am about to pull the trigger and order one.
I personally still love mine. I haven't had any issues with it at all. It makes brewing fast and consistent. There's not much I would change. The newer models come with a quick disconnect I believe, which is about the only thing I wish was on mine (apparently there will be an upgrade kit available for us early folk that bought one).
For me, it's a great system. I brew in my kitchen in my small apartment, and it's perfect for that. It produces great beer in a compact system that's easy to use. I probably sound like a bit of a salesman, however, I'm just a pleased customer. All of the beers I've brewed on it have been excellent, and the only minor issue I had (a clamp that wasn't sealing properly) was taken care of quickly when I reported it to Grainfather. Overall, yes I would absolutely buy it again if I had to do it all over again.
There is a users group on Facebook if you'd like to check it out to get more insight as well. It's a closed group, however one of the admins on there will add you no problem. https://www.facebook.com/groups/grainfather/
I've been very interested in this since I saw an add in Zymurgy magazine. Decided to roll the dice and placed a preorder today. They have a 30 day money back guarantee, so I'll brew 3-4 batches with it, and if it doesn't work as advertised, I'll simply return it and only be out a few bucks shipping.
The biggest thing I'm looking forward to is using this indoors when it's snowing and <30F outside in the wintertime.
The biggest thing I'm looking forward to is using this indoors when it's snowing and <30F outside in the wintertime.
I think you all missed my point, unfortunately. The U.S. Market will NOT use 2000 watts, like you have. I Have tried to boil with 1650 watts that they plan to use here. Not pretty.
There are other products in the U.S. that boil well.
