Grainfather Kickstarter

[Grainfather]

Hi Everyone,

We're trying to launch the Grainfather in the US and we need a bit of help to get to you.

Our project on Kickstarter is here: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/884310658/the-grainfather-all-in-one-all-grain-brewing-syste

And feel free to check our website (so far only live for NZ and Australia) here: www.grainfather.com

We're passionate about making homebrew easy, fun and accessible as well as beer that tastes amazing.

Anything you can do to help would be amazing, even if just getting the word out to all your brewing friends.

Thanks!

 

[Tin4]

Just to let you guys know these are friends of the community from out sister site, AussieHomeBrewer.com,trying to come stateside.

 

[masonsjax]

This looks like a very well designed product. I will be looking at it more closely.

 

[YeastMode]

This looks very interesting, I may consider buying one so that I can brew indoors some days (including my office).

Does anyone know if there are any review on this product, and whether they will be supported from a US facility with respect to parts (i.e. I do not want to pay to have a pump replaced and shipped from NZ)?

 

[Grainfather]

YeastMode, we will have a warehouse and support etc from Portland, OR. Stores who sell it will also be able to help.

There are also reviews made by customers on YouTube (of their own doing not linked with us).

 

[YeastMode]

YeastMode, we will have a warehouse and support etc from Portland, OR. Stores who sell it will also be able to help.

There are also reviews made by customers on YouTube (of their own doing not linked with us).

Hey thanks for the response! Obviously, it is a big purchase, so I would like to take some time to consider it. But looks like you guys are on the ball, so the resolves at least one of my concerns.

 

[Taubin]

If anyone wants to see a grainfather in action, this is the first brew I did on mine. I'm sure I made some mistakes and did some things in ways other people wouldn't, but overall, it was a great experience. Every beer I've made on it has been excellent.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36k8CylANg4[/ame]

 

[rcornell]

Subscribed! This is a fantastic invention!

 

[FatDragon]

@Grainfather - I saw a couple posts on this a while ago, and I'm curious: how is the Grainfather different from other all-in-one brewkits like the Braumeister? Ever since I first heard about the Grainfather, that was my first question, and I either haven't dug deep enough or the information isn't there to be found explaining how the Grainfather differentiates itself.

Either way, it's good to have options and competition in the marketplace, I'm just curious, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

 

[Grainfather]

@Grainfather - I saw a couple posts on this a while ago, and I'm curious: how is the Grainfather different from other all-in-one brewkits like the Braumeister? Ever since I first heard about the Grainfather, that was my first question, and I either haven't dug deep enough or the information isn't there to be found explaining how the Grainfather differentiates itself.

Either way, it's good to have options and competition in the marketplace, I'm just curious, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

FatDragon, fair question!

- The first big difference is the price (should be around $890 USD), we wanted to make an all in one all grain option more accessible to the homebrewer. We also include the counter flow wort chiller.

- The chiller is a counter flow chiller rather than immersion. So this cools a whole batch of wort in around 20 mins and transfers it into your fermenter too.

- The size, I understand the Braumeister doesn't have a 30 L/8 US Gal unit, we found this was a very popular size. If you would like to make more, we have the Grainbrother, which is the Grainfather without the grain basket and is cheaper and you can therefore stagger your brews and do two in a smaller amount of time.

- We also have the capacity for higher grain bills (up to around 9 kg/19.8 lb).

- Our grain basket can be pulled up and sit on hinges by just one person, whereas the Braumeister would require one person lifting and another to insert the part is needs to sit on.

- The recirculation is in a different direction. Braumeister sucks from the top and the wort comes back into the boiler at the bottom. Ours is opposite, so wort comes back into the boiler from the top. This is the more traditional way of doing so and means a more evenly dispersed wort.

- The Braumeister is fully automated. Ours requires manual input of the temperatures for mashing and the change in element wattage etc, we find that our users like to be more involved and are happy with this, although we are also looking into automated options and will concentrate on finding a happy medium so the brewer is involved but also has the convenience of that too. Any changes that are made will be available in an easy upgrade too.

- As a company we also sell other equipment to complement it - sparge water heaters, stainless steel paddles, kegs and kegerators, and we also have all grain kits with grains, hops and yeast etc already measured out for you and vacuum sealed with a recipe designed in conjunction with commercial brewers. These will differ across various markets due to what can be imported etc. We will also provide recipes specific to use with the Grainfather.

- We also have an option to add a pot still head so you can make whiskey from grain as well. We are working on more additions so botanicals can be used too.

- Demand and avaialbility will differ in different markets, but we'll do our best to get everything available in as many places as possible.

We're also very open to ideas and are very new so who knows where we can head next with your help and feedback

 

[FatDragon]

FatDragon, fair question!

- The first big difference is the price (should be around $890 USD), we wanted to make an all in one all grain option more accessible to the homebrewer. We also include the counter flow wort chiller.

- The chiller is a counter flow chiller rather than immersion. So this cools a whole batch of wort in around 20 mins and transfers it into your fermenter too.

- The size, I understand the Braumeister doesn't have a 30 L/8 US Gal unit, we found this was a very popular size. If you would like to make more, we have the Grainbrother, which is the Grainfather without the grain basket and is cheaper and you can therefore stagger your brews and do two in a smaller amount of time.

- We also have the capacity for higher grain bills (up to around 9 kg/19.8 lb).

- Our grain basket can be pulled up and sit on hinges by just one person, whereas the Braumeister would require one person lifting and another to insert the part is needs to sit on.

- The recirculation is in a different direction. Braumeister sucks from the top and the wort comes back into the boiler at the bottom. Ours is opposite, so wort comes back into the boiler from the top. This is the more traditional way of doing so and means a more evenly dispersed wort.

- The Braumeister is fully automated. Ours requires manual input of the temperatures for mashing and the change in element wattage etc, we find that our users like to be more involved and are happy with this, although we are also looking into automated options and will concentrate on finding a happy medium so the brewer is involved but also has the convenience of that too. Any changes that are made will be available in an easy upgrade too.

- As a company we also sell other equipment to complement it - sparge water heaters, stainless steel paddles, kegs and kegerators, and we also have all grain kits with grains, hops and yeast etc already measured out for you and vacuum sealed with a recipe designed in conjunction with commercial brewers. These will differ across various markets due to what can be imported etc. We will also provide recipes specific to use with the Grainfather.

- We also have an option to add a pot still head so you can make whiskey from grain as well. We are working on more additions so botanicals can be used too.

- Demand and avaialbility will differ in different markets, but we'll do our best to get everything available in as many places as possible.

We're also very open to ideas and are very new so who knows where we can head next with your help and feedback

Thanks, that's a good list to help understand the differences.

It's funny, I was writing a reply to suggest that you avoid China (my place of residence for the last eight years) as a future market because China is notorious for knock-offs; a Chinese buddy markets in China for Braumeister, but he gives the impression that he's personally working on making a knock-off Braumeister for domestic marketing. Before I hit send, I saw a number of messages in my local homebrew club's QQ group - a bunch of Chinese guys and myself - talking about the Grainfather (someone saw it on Kickstarter). They're interested but nobody's talking about buying. Not sure if that means anything, but maybe it provides a data point for your future plans.

 

[Grainfather]

Thanks, that's a good list to help understand the differences.

It's funny, I was writing a reply to suggest that you avoid China (my place of residence for the last eight years) as a future market because China is notorious for knock-offs; a Chinese buddy markets in China for Braumeister, but he gives the impression that he's personally working on making a knock-off Braumeister for domestic marketing. Before I hit send, I saw a number of messages in my local homebrew club's QQ group - a bunch of Chinese guys and myself - talking about the Grainfather (someone saw it on Kickstarter). They're interested but nobody's talking about buying. Not sure if that means anything, but maybe it provides a data point for your future plans.

No worries. Thanks for the advice, I will pass it on

 

[grathan]

I'd like to see the CFC built into the kettle walls. Also the ability to ferment in the pot itself.

 

[HopRodGR]

Grainfather folks,

Could you speak more to the ability to step mash? How to you ensure accurate temperatures both at strike, and during the ramping phase? One of the main benefits to me would be the ability to do step mashing mainly for lager brewing.

From what I've read, you are using a temperature controller, which compared to a PID, would mean (correct me if I'm wrong) that the element to maintain mash temperature is either on 100%, or off.

Also, I believe on your Kickstarter site, you mentioned that even using the proposed US 1600w element, you are able to achieve a rolling boil with a 7% boil off rate. Is this at a volume of 8 gallons?

This looks like a promising product, look forward to hearing your response.

 

[Pappers_]

@Grainfather that looks very interesting! A few months ago, we moved from a spacious suburban home to a less spacious city apartment. The size of the grainfather makes it very doable for apartment dwellers - all you really need is a fermentation chamber of some sort. I'll be sharing this with my homebrew club and hope you reach your goal!

 

[Grainfather]

Hello HopRodGR

You maintain consistent temperatures with the control box by manually inputting your desired step mashing temperatures.

The unit has an element variation switch which means you can swap between. See this link http://media.wix.com/ugd/e8b8c7_9e7c95eeec064601a0b002f255b93197.pdf and P6 for more on this. Please note your wattage will be different in the US.

We are looking into PID options in future, but this is only a concept.

The 7% boil off is for 7-8 Gallons.

Hope this helps, feel free to ask any more questions.

 

[hunter_le five]

Seems like a really cool rig. Kind of makes me wish I had seen this before I started building my setup. Hope you make your goal.

 

[HopRodGR]

Hello HopRodGR

You maintain consistent temperatures with the control box by manually inputting your desired step mashing temperatures.

The unit has an element variation switch which means you can swap between. See this link http://media.wix.com/ugd/e8b8c7_9e7c95eeec064601a0b002f255b93197.pdf and P6 for more on this. Please note your wattage will be different in the US.

We are looking into PID options in future, but this is only a concept.

The 7% boil off is for 7-8 Gallons.

Hope this helps, feel free to ask any more questions.

This does help. I will say this, I watched some videos online today of your rig in action, and if the US version was at 2000w like the NZ/AU version, I'd have already backed your Kickstarter. Your rig is exactly what I've been looking for at the right price point. But, when you are talking about backing it down to 80% of the power of the model you already have out for the US market (1600w vs 2000w), I'm still a little uncomfortable backing the project without a video or some other guide showing the boil is indeed as vigorous as claimed.

I know you chose 1600w to meet spec for a standard 15amp circuit in the US, but I'd guess nearly everyone has a 20amp circuit in their house to run a 2000w element, probably in their kitchen where most of us would be using it.

Other option would be a cover of some sort, similar to the lid you include for mashing. However it would need a drip tray to catch high DMS condensate, something commercial breweries employ. May not be feasible on a homebrew level.

I really like what you guys are offering, and if I can get comfortable with the ability of it to boil a full 8 gallons, count me in as a customer.

 

[TallDan]

I watched the video of using the grainfather on your NZ website. I'm pretty impressed. A few things that I'm wondering about:

What is your typical mash efficiency? I think I saw a reference to something around 80%?

What type of heating element is used?

What materials other than stainless steel and silicone are used on components that contact the wort?

I saw on your video that you have a switch for 800w vs 2kw for mashing vs boil. Any chance the US version could have a second element for the boil that could be plugged into a separate 15a circuit?

Any plans to sell your fermenters in the US?

How long has the NZ/AUS version of the grainfather been available to the public?

How many ounces of hops can be added to the boil before there is an issue with recirculation during cooling?

 

[FrozenOcean]

This looks awesome, especially for the price. When I first saw it, I thought "that's gonna cost a fortune". But not really, when you consider what it would cost to build something comparable yourself.

Impressive.

 

[OleGoatBrewing]

I'm in!

 

[Bito401]

this is a great idea!

 

[wattershed]

As was mentioned above, I need to see the US version keep a boil with the 1600w element. I have zero issue doling out the costs for this but it's a complete and total non-starter if boils become a 2-3 hour process.

 

[HopRodGR]

As was mentioned above, I need to see the US version keep a boil with the 1600w element. I have zero issue doling out the costs for this but it's a complete and total non-starter if boils become a 2-3 hour process.

Here are a few videos showing the NZ/AU/UK model boiling plenty vigorously, but again, that's with a 2000w element.

If you use a spreadsheet to calculate the ramp times, between going from tap water temp to mash in, and mash temp to boil the difference between 1600w and 2000w is around 20-25 minutes, which in my mind, isn't a huge deal. But, cutting 20% power makes me wonder what that boil looks like. I'll say this, the Grainfather folks have been pretty responsive to questions, and have said they will post a video very soon with the one US model they have, so hopefully that gets posted soon. If it looks good, I say this system appears to be a really nice value, and I'll probably pull the trigger on one.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY29_865C8o[/ame]
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0rIV0wCokE[/ame]
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGvTcT8HKbA[/ame]

 

[wattershed]

My concern is that it won't be enough juice to hit a boil, or maintain a very low boil that's going to force me to run 2+ hour boils.

And, while I had read they'd be posting a video, I also know there's only 10 kickstarter slots left at the $800 price point so time is somewhat of a factor for me, personally - I'm sure they'll have no issue finding people to fill out their slots

 

[HopRodGR]

Ha, you're basically describing my exact dilemma. Ready to pull the trigger but hesitant due to uncertainty on how the boil will perform.

 

[Grainfather]

As was mentioned above, I need to see the US version keep a boil with the 1600w element. I have zero issue doling out the costs for this but it's a complete and total non-starter if boils become a 2-3 hour process.

Hi Wattershed, please see the FAQ and video on the Kickstarter project. Video has just been uploaded.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/884310658/the-grainfather-all-in-one-all-grain-brewing-syste

 

[Grainfather]

Here are a few videos showing the NZ/AU/UK model boiling plenty vigorously, but again, that's with a 2000w element.

If you use a spreadsheet to calculate the ramp times, between going from tap water temp to mash in, and mash temp to boil the difference between 1600w and 2000w is around 20-25 minutes, which in my mind, isn't a huge deal. But, cutting 20% power makes me wonder what that boil looks like. I'll say this, the Grainfather folks have been pretty responsive to questions, and have said they will post a video very soon with the one US model they have, so hopefully that gets posted soon. If it looks good, I say this system appears to be a really nice value, and I'll probably pull the trigger on one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY29_865C8o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0rIV0wCokE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGvTcT8HKbA

Hi HopRodGR, please see the FAQ and video on the Kickstarter project. Video has just been uploaded.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...-brewing-syste

 

[Sammy86]

@Grainfather are you guys still coming stateside even if you don't hit your kickstarted goal? Or will there be a delay?

I see you guys are close with 15 days to go!

Good luck!

 

[Grainfather]

I watched the video of using the grainfather on your NZ website. I'm pretty impressed. A few things that I'm wondering about:

What is your typical mash efficiency? I think I saw a reference to something around 80%?

What type of heating element is used?

What materials other than stainless steel and silicone are used on components that contact the wort?

I saw on your video that you have a switch for 800w vs 2kw for mashing vs boil. Any chance the US version could have a second element for the boil that could be plugged into a separate 15a circuit?

Any plans to sell your fermenters in the US?

How long has the NZ/AUS version of the grainfather been available to the public?

How many ounces of hops can be added to the boil before there is an issue with recirculation during cooling?

Hi TallDan,

- Efficiency depends on what you recipe is and how you brew. You can alter the efficiency (that's the beauty of it). Efficiency is purely for the number crunchers to make sure more beer is produced at a lower cost. Because you can alter steps or ingredients as you brew the efficiency could be affected. So it's a tough question to answer simply but as a rough guideline it is between 75-85%.

- If you mean is it an exposed or covered element, this is covered.

- Copper contacts the wort in the chiller, otherwise just stainless steel and silicone (food grade).

- We haven't considered an option to be plugged into an external circuit, but we have had feedback on wanting a higher voltage element so watch this space. In the meantime if worried please see the FAQ and video in the Kickstarter project: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/884310658/the-grainfather-all-in-one-all-grain-brewing-syste

- Are you talking about the Stainless Steel Condensers? If so then we haven't confirmed yet if this will be available in the US yet.

- We've been selling in NZ since August 2014 and Australia since December 2014.

- We've tested with up to 300g of hops and all is fine with that.

Hope this all answers your questions.

 

[Grainfather]

@Grainfather are you guys still coming stateside even if you don't hit your kickstarted goal? Or will there be a delay?

I see you guys are close with 15 days to go!

Good luck!

We will still come, but not sure on the timing. Will do what we can to get there as soon as possible!
Sign up to our newsletter via www.grainfather.com to get the news as we have it.

 

[HopRodGR]

Hi HopRodGR, please see the FAQ and video on the Kickstarter project. Video has just been uploaded.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...-brewing-syste

Thanks for uploading that. Direct link is below for those who want to shortcut it.

Well.... that's a much less vigorous boil than the videos I've seen of the non-US version in action, and it appears that's at around 7 gallons at most. Curious to hear other people's thoughts after seeing the video.

Grainfather Boil - 1600w Version: [ame]https://vimeo.com/119812774[/ame]

 

[Grainfather]

Thanks for uploading that. Direct link is below for those who want to shortcut it.

Well.... that's a much less vigorous boil than the videos I've seen of the non-US version in action, and it appears that's at around 7 gallons at most. Curious to hear other people's thoughts after seeing the video.

Grainfather Boil - 1600w Version: https://vimeo.com/119812774

Please also see the Kickstarter link for written info on it in the FAQ. Please use the info together with the video.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/884310658/the-grainfather-all-in-one-all-grain-brewing-syste

Thanks

 

[wattershed]

Thanks for uploading that. Direct link is below for those who want to shortcut it.

Well.... that's a much less vigorous boil than the videos I've seen of the non-US version in action, and it appears that's at around 7 gallons at most. Curious to hear other people's thoughts after seeing the video.

I guess I'm of two minds on it. On the one hand, yes, it's a lighter boil, no question about it. On the other hand, I've done enough reading on this topic since picking up this hobby to know what sorts of side effects a lighter boil can create, and I'm still not entirely convinced that those side effects are legitimate concerns anyone could detect in a batch of homebrew.

The most common things are DMS, lack of hop isomerization, and even beer clarity. (source*) The DMS argument is the flimsiest of the bunch IMO. Clarity can be countered with a fining agent in the boil or later in the fermenter. The hop isomerization argument is the one which seems to have solid science supporting it, and is a very fair counter to the opinion that light boils have no side effects, but I haven't come across any research which seems to communicate the sort of utilization hit one would take by failing to reach a rolling boil for the duration, or again, if any of us could do a blind A/B test and tell which pint was borne of a rolling boil vs a lighter boil.

If the product cannot boil high gravity beer as it claims throughout the promotional material, it's an $800 HLT and they're going to be issuing refunds to a bunch of early adopters due to false advertising. Basically the worst thing a company can do when trying to get a foothold into a huge market.

* the article I linked is already showing its age quite a bit (HSA, not desiring overly bitter hop profiles, etc) but the research is thorough and a great jumping-off point in the conversation.

 

[FlyDoctor]

The strength of the boil is also an over rated thing. As long as the surface is moving and there's circulation, I think that's enough. The liquid does not need to be jumping into your face.

 

[Hello]

This is a neat concept and aimed perfectly for those without a whole lot of space for storage and brewing. I've heard people talk about getting out of brewing once they have children because they lose a lot of the open space that they once had or that they're sitting outside away from their family for too long while brewing. I would say that if I lived in an apartment, I wouldn't likely be brewing or I'd be looking for single vessel systems.

Good luck with your goal.

 

[HopRodGR]

Please also see the Kickstarter link for written info on it in the FAQ. Please use the info together with the video.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/884310658/the-grainfather-all-in-one-all-grain-brewing-syste

Thanks

Grainfather, what volume boil is that? Appears to be a fair amount of headspace. 7 gallons?

I was iffy at first but this is a rolling boil still, even if it's on the lighter end. I'd also guess that due to the geometry of the kettle, carefully wrapping the unit in a reflective insulation would help retain extra heat, and likely lead to a more vigorous boil. Seems to be a lot of support out there showing insulation can make a big difference. It would still be nice to be able to run a 2000w version on a 20 amp circuit.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

Despite having a three-tier, this appeals to me. I normally do larger batches is my only concern.

I think concern about the gentle boil is a bit over stated but the addition of the cheap heat stick or immersion heater (by the end user) could alleviate this.

Honestly, I was not not saddled with a large post-divorce tax bill, I would probably be in. There is a corner in my basement just begging for this.

 

[HopRodGR]

Well, last night I thought I'd be passing on this, but after thinking it over some more, at this price point the pros still outweigh the cons here and I ended up backing the Kickstarter. I do still wish the boil was more vigorous, but I do think there are options to get around that, via either insulating, small amounts of post-boil top-off water or even slightly smaller batches.

I'm still happy I'll be able to do precise step mashes using only one circuit in my kitchen, that's the main selling point for me, and I'm sure many others without a ton of space probably are looking for that too.

 

[wattershed]

Well, last night I thought I'd be passing on this, but after thinking it over some more, at this price point the pros still outweigh the cons here and I ended up backing the Kickstarter. I do still wish the boil was more vigorous, but I do think there are options to get around that, via either insulating, small amounts of post-boil top-off water or even slightly smaller batches.

I'm still happy I'll be able to do precise step mashes using only one circuit in my kitchen, that's the main selling point for me, and I'm sure many others without a ton of space probably are looking for that too.

I didn't mention it in my last (long-winded) reply but I'd pulled the trigger about 10 minutes prior

Now it just needs to be funded!