Grainfather Kickstarter

[Grainfather]

@Grainfather are you guys still coming stateside even if you don't hit your kickstarted goal? Or will there be a delay?

I see you guys are close with 15 days to go!

Good luck!

We will still come, but not sure on the timing. Will do what we can to get there as soon as possible!
Sign up to our newsletter via www.grainfather.com to get the news as we have it.

 

[HopRodGR]

Hi HopRodGR, please see the FAQ and video on the Kickstarter project. Video has just been uploaded.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...-brewing-syste

Thanks for uploading that. Direct link is below for those who want to shortcut it.

Well.... that's a much less vigorous boil than the videos I've seen of the non-US version in action, and it appears that's at around 7 gallons at most. Curious to hear other people's thoughts after seeing the video.

Grainfather Boil - 1600w Version: [ame]https://vimeo.com/119812774[/ame]

 

[Grainfather]

Thanks for uploading that. Direct link is below for those who want to shortcut it.

Well.... that's a much less vigorous boil than the videos I've seen of the non-US version in action, and it appears that's at around 7 gallons at most. Curious to hear other people's thoughts after seeing the video.

Grainfather Boil - 1600w Version: https://vimeo.com/119812774

Please also see the Kickstarter link for written info on it in the FAQ. Please use the info together with the video.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/884310658/the-grainfather-all-in-one-all-grain-brewing-syste

Thanks

 

[wattershed]

Thanks for uploading that. Direct link is below for those who want to shortcut it.

Well.... that's a much less vigorous boil than the videos I've seen of the non-US version in action, and it appears that's at around 7 gallons at most. Curious to hear other people's thoughts after seeing the video.

I guess I'm of two minds on it. On the one hand, yes, it's a lighter boil, no question about it. On the other hand, I've done enough reading on this topic since picking up this hobby to know what sorts of side effects a lighter boil can create, and I'm still not entirely convinced that those side effects are legitimate concerns anyone could detect in a batch of homebrew.

The most common things are DMS, lack of hop isomerization, and even beer clarity. (source*) The DMS argument is the flimsiest of the bunch IMO. Clarity can be countered with a fining agent in the boil or later in the fermenter. The hop isomerization argument is the one which seems to have solid science supporting it, and is a very fair counter to the opinion that light boils have no side effects, but I haven't come across any research which seems to communicate the sort of utilization hit one would take by failing to reach a rolling boil for the duration, or again, if any of us could do a blind A/B test and tell which pint was borne of a rolling boil vs a lighter boil.

If the product cannot boil high gravity beer as it claims throughout the promotional material, it's an $800 HLT and they're going to be issuing refunds to a bunch of early adopters due to false advertising. Basically the worst thing a company can do when trying to get a foothold into a huge market.

* the article I linked is already showing its age quite a bit (HSA, not desiring overly bitter hop profiles, etc) but the research is thorough and a great jumping-off point in the conversation.

 

[FlyDoctor]

The strength of the boil is also an over rated thing. As long as the surface is moving and there's circulation, I think that's enough. The liquid does not need to be jumping into your face.

 

[Hello]

This is a neat concept and aimed perfectly for those without a whole lot of space for storage and brewing. I've heard people talk about getting out of brewing once they have children because they lose a lot of the open space that they once had or that they're sitting outside away from their family for too long while brewing. I would say that if I lived in an apartment, I wouldn't likely be brewing or I'd be looking for single vessel systems.

Good luck with your goal.

 

[HopRodGR]

Please also see the Kickstarter link for written info on it in the FAQ. Please use the info together with the video.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/884310658/the-grainfather-all-in-one-all-grain-brewing-syste

Thanks

Grainfather, what volume boil is that? Appears to be a fair amount of headspace. 7 gallons?

I was iffy at first but this is a rolling boil still, even if it's on the lighter end. I'd also guess that due to the geometry of the kettle, carefully wrapping the unit in a reflective insulation would help retain extra heat, and likely lead to a more vigorous boil. Seems to be a lot of support out there showing insulation can make a big difference. It would still be nice to be able to run a 2000w version on a 20 amp circuit.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

Despite having a three-tier, this appeals to me. I normally do larger batches is my only concern.

I think concern about the gentle boil is a bit over stated but the addition of the cheap heat stick or immersion heater (by the end user) could alleviate this.

Honestly, I was not not saddled with a large post-divorce tax bill, I would probably be in. There is a corner in my basement just begging for this.

 

[HopRodGR]

Well, last night I thought I'd be passing on this, but after thinking it over some more, at this price point the pros still outweigh the cons here and I ended up backing the Kickstarter. I do still wish the boil was more vigorous, but I do think there are options to get around that, via either insulating, small amounts of post-boil top-off water or even slightly smaller batches.

I'm still happy I'll be able to do precise step mashes using only one circuit in my kitchen, that's the main selling point for me, and I'm sure many others without a ton of space probably are looking for that too.

 

[wattershed]

Well, last night I thought I'd be passing on this, but after thinking it over some more, at this price point the pros still outweigh the cons here and I ended up backing the Kickstarter. I do still wish the boil was more vigorous, but I do think there are options to get around that, via either insulating, small amounts of post-boil top-off water or even slightly smaller batches.

I'm still happy I'll be able to do precise step mashes using only one circuit in my kitchen, that's the main selling point for me, and I'm sure many others without a ton of space probably are looking for that too.

I didn't mention it in my last (long-winded) reply but I'd pulled the trigger about 10 minutes prior

Now it just needs to be funded!

 

[wattershed]

Just thought of another question - the NZ version's got a mash and a boil toggle to go between the 500w heat and the 2,000w heat.

Is the US version going to have the same, but just 500/1,600? or will it not have a switch, and always go at 1,600?

 

[TallDan]

Just thought of another question - the NZ version's got a mash and a boil toggle to go between the 500w heat and the 2,000w heat.

Is the US version going to have the same, but just 500/1,600? or will it not have a switch, and always go at 1,600?

And as a follow-on to that question, especially if it's always at 1600w, is the controller a PID-type to compensate for temperature swings, or is it a simple on/off thermostat?

 

[HopRodGR]

And as a follow-on to that question, especially if it's always at 1600w, is the controller a PID-type to compensate for temperature swings, or is it a simple on/off thermostat?

It's the same as the NZ/AUS model with the exception of a 1600w element, and since there isn't a PID, I'd assume it's a toggle switch. Sounds like a PID may be a down the road upgrade.

 

[Grainfather]

Just thought I'd answer one of these questions here as a few have asked the same question:

The US units will have the element variation switch like the NZ version. The difference will be the wattage - 1600/500w.

 

[Grainfather]

I guess I'm of two minds on it. On the one hand, yes, it's a lighter boil, no question about it. On the other hand, I've done enough reading on this topic since picking up this hobby to know what sorts of side effects a lighter boil can create, and I'm still not entirely convinced that those side effects are legitimate concerns anyone could detect in a batch of homebrew.

The most common things are DMS, lack of hop isomerization, and even beer clarity. (source*) The DMS argument is the flimsiest of the bunch IMO. Clarity can be countered with a fining agent in the boil or later in the fermenter. The hop isomerization argument is the one which seems to have solid science supporting it, and is a very fair counter to the opinion that light boils have no side effects, but I haven't come across any research which seems to communicate the sort of utilization hit one would take by failing to reach a rolling boil for the duration, or again, if any of us could do a blind A/B test and tell which pint was borne of a rolling boil vs a lighter boil.

If the product cannot boil high gravity beer as it claims throughout the promotional material, it's an $800 HLT and they're going to be issuing refunds to a bunch of early adopters due to false advertising. Basically the worst thing a company can do when trying to get a foothold into a huge market.

* the article I linked is already showing its age quite a bit (HSA, not desiring overly bitter hop profiles, etc) but the research is thorough and a great jumping-off point in the conversation.

Heya, I know you've already pledged and thanks so much ! But still want to answer your questions about the boil.
Any concerns about a light boil would be for a boil when all you can see is some bubbles rising to the top. This is a light boil compared to our other units but not a light boil as far as the boiling you need for brewing goes. Just wanted to put your mind at ease.

We've been in the brewing industry for years so have considered such things and have had commercial brewers help test prototypes etc with us, we certainly don't want to offer a sub par unit!

Thanks

 

[Grainfather]

Grainfather, what volume boil is that? Appears to be a fair amount of headspace. 7 gallons?

I was iffy at first but this is a rolling boil still, even if it's on the lighter end. I'd also guess that due to the geometry of the kettle, carefully wrapping the unit in a reflective insulation would help retain extra heat, and likely lead to a more vigorous boil. Seems to be a lot of support out there showing insulation can make a big difference. It would still be nice to be able to run a 2000w version on a 20 amp circuit.

Yes this is 7 Gal in there at the moment (for 5 Gal final volume). The head space is for if you'd prefer to make more (6 Gal final volume) and also to avoid boil overs.

 

[HopRodGR]

A user on the Kickstarter page posed a very interesting question about offering an insulated sleeve made specifically for the Grainfather, to help increase heating efficiency which should shorten ramp times and increase the boil off rate. Is this something you would consider making? There is quite a bit of feedback online that reflective type insulation has very measurable benefits in the way of heat retention when it is used to wrap an electric fired kettle. A custom wrap would also look a lot cooler than something fabricated at home.

 

[Grainfather]

A user on the Kickstarter page posed a very interesting question about offering an insulated sleeve made specifically for the Grainfather, to help increase heating efficiency which should shorten ramp times and increase the boil off rate. Is this something you would consider making? There is quite a bit of feedback online that reflective type insulation has very measurable benefits in the way of heat retention when it is used to wrap an electric fired kettle. A custom wrap would also look a lot cooler than something fabricated at home.

Heya, We have thought about this and are also looking into this. Once again though too early to confirm anything on that. But keep the feedback coming

 

[HopRodGR]

One other thing that has surprised me is the amount of people requesting a 220v model. Isn't the appeal here the ability to run on a 120v circuit? There's several 220v models out already that for a few hundred more have 3x the power and can do up to 15 gallon batches.

 

[Pappers_]

One other thing that has surprised me is the amount of people requesting a 220v model. Isn't the appeal here the ability to run on a 120v circuit?

Agreed, I think this is a great option for apartment and condo dwellers, with limited space and running on regular current.

 

[TallDan]

Since I haven't seen it mentioned on this thread yet, Congratulations to the Grainfather crew for already having $60k pledged for your $50k goal with about two weeks still to go!

 

[HopRodGR]

Since I haven't seen it mentioned on this thread yet, Congratulations to the Grainfather crew for already having $60k pledged for your $50k goal with about two weeks still to go!

I'll second that, pretty impressive for a device I don't think many stateside even knew about until a few weeks ago. I went from never considering a system like this due to cost (see picobrew or braumeister) to ordering one and selling off the parts I had assembled to do my own electric build.

 

[dschoemaker]

They added 5 more units at the level that sold out.

Dave

 

[OleGoatBrewing]

Would love to get a BeerSmith2 equipment profile for this before it comes out. Did a little searching and it seems it may be difficult to generate one because the softwares formulas don't really adapt to single vessel systems too well. I'm wondering if a BIAB profile would be sufficient or if would throw efficiency numbers off because mash/sparge. Thoughts?

 

[dschoemaker]

My plan was to adapt the Biab setting, you can mess around with the efficiency numbers manually so should not be an issue.

Dave

Would love to get a BeerSmith2 equipment profile for this before it comes out. Did a little searching and it seems it may be difficult to generate one because the softwares formulas don't really adapt to single vessel systems too well. I'm wondering if a BIAB profile would be sufficient or if would throw efficiency numbers off because mash/sparge. Thoughts?

 

[dschoemaker]

Lots of discussion of these units and how to get beersmith to work on these threads:

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/8...er-guide-problems-and-solutions-thread/page-1

http://www.forum.realbeer.co.nz/for...ivity&id=1500433:Topic:202253&page=1#comments

Dave

 

[Birddog1]

With 8 days to go, they're up to 90 units.

 

[duffbeer71]

Would love to get a BeerSmith2 equipment profile for this before it comes out. Did a little searching and it seems it may be difficult to generate one because the softwares formulas don't really adapt to single vessel systems too well. I'm wondering if a BIAB profile would be sufficient or if would throw efficiency numbers off because mash/sparge. Thoughts?

I just did an "Add-On" for Beersmith with a equipment profile for Grainfather to download.

 

[twofieros]

I'm pretty excited for this system. I'm one who requested a 220V system. I have several reasons. First, I already have a really powerful outlet I use to charge my two electric cars. Second, my wife hates the smell of beer brewing so I usually brew in the garage or outside. Third, since they chose to use a 1600W element vs the 2kW I figured I wouldn't have to give up anything with a 220V system.

I know I sit in a unique situation having the powerful outlets already. I believe they could still make a system that uses both voltages quite easily, without having to spend too much to make the adjustment.

I'm still very excited for this unit even if it remains the 1600W. I look forward to more automation. I love to brew but being a father means I don't have the time I used to.

 

[HopRodGR]

Reddit AMA going on with the Grainfather's designer until 9pm EST.

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2x0sxs/i_am_imker_swanepoel_industrial_designer_for_the/