Grain Mill Justification

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mattym5

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I'm trying to justify the purchase of a grain mill vs other upgrades to my current brew setup. I'm currently using a 3 tier system with propane burners. I don't have a grain mill at this point and buy all my ingredients 2 recipes at a time and have them milled for me. I've gotten prices from my LHBS as well as online with shipping and it looks like I'm only going to save $0.08 per pound or $0.8 per 10 pounds milled...for a $150 grain mill that would take me over 100 brews to recoup my money.

I understand I'll be able to better control my grind and potentially increase efficiency by dialing in my own grain mill and have the ability to store enough grains to brew anytime i want without having to wait for ingredients to ship, but is it really worth it? Or am I just getting bad prices? It looks like for 50lbs of domestic 2-row online will cost $57 shipped, or $66 locally...

Am I missing something here? Thanks for the insight!
 
I don't get any discount by buying in bulk but since I have to mail order everything I do save a lot on shipping. I place one bulk order a month and get free shipping. A pound of each type of specialty grain isn't a big expense at all. And having a bit of everything in stock means I can make almost any recipe I want with what I have on hand.

But it's also about convenience. If you have a HBS close by then a grain mill is less of a benefit, but still to save a bit of gas and an hour in the car or whatever that is worth it.

Definitely one of the better purchases for me, solely on the convenience factor.
 
Sadu said:
I don't get any discount by buying in bulk but since I have to mail order everything I do save a lot on shipping. I place one bulk order a month and get free shipping. A pound of each type of specialty grain isn't a big expense at all. And having a bit of everything in stock means I can make almost any recipe I want with what I have on hand.

But it's also about convenience. If you have a HBS close by then a grain mill is less of a benefit, but still to save a bit of gas and an hour in the car or whatever that is worth it.

Definitely one of the better purchases for me, solely on the convenience factor.
Click to expand...

I am usually able to plan my brew days at least a few days ahead of time and the online store I've been ordering from has free shipping that gets to me in 2 days with a minimum purchase. If I order the ingredients for 2 beers I meet that minimum order. They can mill it for me for nearly the same price. So the convenience factor isn't that big for me at this point so I'm wondering if I'm missing something from the cost or efficiency perspective...
 
mattym5 said:
[...]the convenience factor isn't that big for me at this point so I'm wondering if I'm missing something from the cost or efficiency perspective...
Click to expand...

We don't know anything about your extraction efficiency and/or if you're happy with the crush you've been receiving.
Going only by your two posts, if you're content with what you've been receiving, you probably won't appreciate the investment in your own mill...

Cheers!
 
I'm not sure where your getting a $.08 savings...
Bulk (50 lb) two-row is basically $1 per lb. either purchased from most local homebrew shops or fiftypoundsack.com with free shipping.
Local homebrew shops charge between $1.39 and 1.60 per pound for smaller quantities.
I'm not going to try to talk you in to anything.
For me, it's not the cost savings, it's the ease of brew day. Same reason I have an RO system or a yeast bank, or any of the other thousands of dollar of equipment.
 
acidrain said:
I'm not sure where your getting a $.08 savings...
Bulk (50 lb) two-row is basically $1 per lb. either purchased from most local homebrew shops or fiftypoundsack.com with free shipping.
Local homebrew shops charge between $1.39 and 1.60 per pound for smaller quantities.
I'm not going to try to talk you in to anything.
For me, it's not the cost savings, it's the ease of brew day. Same reason I have an RO system or a yeast bank, or any of the other thousands of dollar of equipment.
Click to expand...

What I was thinking - what is your actual cost per pound of malt? Buying a mill to save money only works if you are buying malt by the sack. Most places I have seen don't even have a different price for milled/unmilled malt by the pound.
 
+1 on the cereal killer! I dont plan my brews as well as the OP. I wake up and decide wow I wanna do a porter today. I millthe grain and do it.

acidrain I just googled fiftypoundsack and it took me to rebel brewing. The shipping wasnt free. Is there a secret to free shipping?
 
Kerrbrewer said:
+1 on the cereal killer! I dont plan my brews as well as the OP. I wake up and decide wow I wanna do a porter today. I millthe grain and do it.
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This is what I like too. I brew 1 gallon batches so I can keep just a few pounds each of 2-row, ale malt, vienna, munich, pilsner, wheat plus up to a pound of every specialty malt in the shop. Grain is pretty cheap buying it in small amounts like this. That, plus 8 hop types and 6 yeast types opens up a massive range of beers that I can brew on a whim.
 
Another +1 for the cereal killer. For me I struggled to get consistent efficiency and I had a hunch it was crush related. I bought a grain mill and now consistently get 80%. Also just switched to BIAB and can crush tighter than a LHBS store mill. There is a benefit to control variables that impact your efficiency.
 
Your beer will be better if you use fresh crushed grains.

As soon the grains are crusehd, the oxidation process starts.

If you brew in one week or less after get the grains crushed, the difference in flavor and eficiency is not big deal, but as longer you take to brew after that, more the grains oxidation will affect your beer.
 
The justification for me is that I can control the crush, I can put together a recipe and brew when I want. Will I save some money? Yes, but it will take a long time to use that justification because I got a good high end mill and motor. But it sure is nice having the convenience of my own mill.
 
$66 in bulk locally is a ripoff. Any other LHBS or a friendly brewpub nearby? I can get 50# sacks of domestic for around $35, imported for about $55. I was getting friendly with a brewpub before I just moved that sold me a sack of imported MO for cost a couple of times. That paid for my $99 Cereal Killer within a few months easy. Then you get the other quality benefits of course.
 
Kerrbrewer said:
+1 on the cereal killer! I dont plan my brews as well as the OP. I wake up and decide wow I wanna do a porter today. I millthe grain and do it.

acidrain I just googled fiftypoundsack and it took me to rebel brewing. The shipping wasnt free. Is there a secret to free shipping?
Click to expand...

The secret for me is 10# increments at morebeer.com. Free shipping for orders over $59. Just ordered (6) 10# bags of Pilsen, total was $64.74 including no tax and free shipping, which gets them to me by Friday (to NC from PA).

So, about the same price per pound (maybe less?) as it would be to get a full sack from the LHBS, but no driving/hauling the sack, not to mention the grain is already pre-measured for my pilsner SMASH.

OP -

Nothing like having your own mill. Keep a bunch of grain in sealed containers and a bunch of hops in the freezer. Brew whatever you like on any given day, without having to plan ahead (for the most part). Set the crush where you like. May be in my head, but the beer just tastes fresher when it is just-crushed. Not so much about saving money to me, but moreso adds to the experience of homebrewing.
 
dsniegocki said:
The secret for me is 10# increments at morebeer.com. Free shipping for orders over $59. Just ordered (6) 10# bags of Pilsen, total was $64.74 including no tax and free shipping, which gets them to me by Friday (to NC from PA).

So, about the same price per pound (maybe less?) as it would be to get a full sack from the LHBS, but no driving/hauling the sack, not to mention the grain is already pre-measured for my pilsner SMASH.

OP -

Nothing like having your own mill. Keep a bunch of grain in sealed containers and a bunch of hops in the freezer. Brew whatever you like on any given day, without having to plan ahead (for the most part). Set the crush where you like. May be in my head, but the beer just tastes fresher when it is just-crushed. Not so much about saving money to me, but moreso adds to the experience of homebrewing.
Click to expand...

Bingo!:mug:
 
Sounding to me like you're already on the verge of asking forgiveness rather than permission... Justification = BECAUSE YOU WANT ONE
 
Cerial Killer owner here. Base malts for me locally are usually $1.75/ pound. I can get sacks of 2 row and pilsner (what I use most)for $45-$60 a bag depending on sales/deals. For me I couldn't see a reason not to get a mill.
 
Another Cereal Killer owner here - got mine for $89 with a 10% coupon.

I agree with others, having a consistent grain crush for each batch has been great. When I used to buy pre-crushed it ran the spectrum of being too fine to too coarse and was tough to dial in efficiency.
 
I've been very happy with my Barley Crusher. Great control.

From a strict $ ROI you are going to be hard pressed to justify a grain mill. For that matter its hard to justify the entire hobby. If I would have spent the amount I have on equipment and ingredients on finished beer, I would not be able to keep up. One of the great aspects of this hobby is the tinkering, building, control, and experimentation that comes with it. Having a grain mill is another great way to add to that.
 
Having your own mill provides you the satisfaction of controlling the entire process. There is a great amount of ownership knowing you did it all including the grinding.
 
Thank you for all the input! I definitely will get a grain mill at some point, I'm just trying to prioritize my purchases at this point. If it would save me a ton of money on recipes that I could then put towards another equipment purchase it would be an easy decision. As I said, I currently have a home-made three tier system but would like to single tier system, but need to purchase the pumps. So at this point it's do I want to invest in a single tier system or get the grain mill. I'll have both eventually, just need to decide the order. But these comments have helped me to be able to make an informed decision, and to realize the prices at my LHBS are pretty steep.
 
You already have a solution for crushing your grain so perhaps you have other higher priority things to get? I bought one and its nice to have but not a big benefit as my LHBS would crush just fine.
 
For ordering grains online for BIAB, a mill is a must as if I order crushed, they usually are not fine enough for BIAB
 
My brewing days do get interrupted thus sometimes I'm having to wait another week or two or three. Keeping whole grains and grinding just before using helps preserve the freshness.

Once you get a mill, you'll love it. If money is tight get a Corona type mill. Usually <$30 on Amazon. They work. They're durable.



All the Best,
D. White
 
To me the big advantage is being able to buy grains in bulk. You save money on grain, but also time and gas for trips to the LHBS and/or shipping on mailorder grains.
 
Heineken said:
...its nice to have but not a big benefit as my LHBS would crush just fine.
Click to expand...

I buy my ingredients at a rate of ~1 recipe per month at the LHBS. They let me (actually, PREFER me to) crush my own grains. Each time I run that Monster Mill, I think "Boy, I'd really like to have one of these at home." But unless I started doing at least a batch a week, which is impossible on my schedule, having my own crusher shall remain a pipe dream. Besides, I love going into the LHBS and walking the aisles pipe-dreaming about all the other stuff on the shelves I potentially "need".
 
Buying grain crushed saves me another thing to do. I also don't have to store grain. I do have a corona style mill just for the odd occasion. Currently a better grain mill is down on the list of priorities. I'm sure I'll want one at some point.
 
I have and use a corona mill and a Kegco 3 roller mill.

They both work great!

Buying grain by the sack and hops by the pound and re pitching yeast slurry brings the cost of brewing beer down substantially, I think of the beer as free given the time commitment to making it as the high value commodity j/k
 
Thanks again for all the insight guys! It really brings into perspective and gives me more avenues to pursue!
 
I bought one of those hobby grinders for those infrequent times when I buy locally and don't want to wait for them to grind for me or I forget to check "crushed" when ordering from the internet. I'm looking at from the perspective of keeping my brew day going and not from saving money.
 
How much you save depends on the depending things. :)

I can get my 2-row from RiteBrew.com for $38 for a 50# sack. They're about 3 hours up the road from me, and I'm by there once or twice a year. I also have a friend who heads up there occasionally who'll stop and get stuff for me. Thus, no shipping, and I'm looking at 76 cents per pound. Maris Otter, which I use a lot of, is about 99 cents in a 55# sack.

My (relatively) LHBS has base grain for $1.50/lb. I think that's crushed, but either way, look at the difference. I can do better in some places, but I have to diddle around a lot to get things to come out cheaper. So I buy bulk from Ritebrew. I haven't asked my LHBS about bulk grain, if he came close to Ritebrew I'd get it there.

I put in an RO filter; saves me about $5 in water each time bought from the store. I paid $175 for everything (dissolved solids meter, a few extra doodads, shipping), and I've saved about $75 in water so far.

***************

Many above talk about being able to control things; very true, and there's an additional advantage. I store my grain, for the most part, in sealed containers. It keeps. Crushed grain will go stale.

But in the end, if this hobby were purely about saving money, we probably wouldn't do it. I've got, <mentally adding> well over $1000 in kegs, keezer, lines, faucets, regulators, tanks......$175 in a RO system...$100+ in a ph meter...$160 in a kettle...a grain mill for $130...another $200 in brewing ancillaries....a ferm chamber fridge for $100....couple of Inkbirds for $80....fastrack $40....laststraw beer gun $100....I'm going to stop here because I'm scaring myself.

If I don't include my time, I figure I'll break even about the year 2027...assuming I don't buy anything else. And the odds of that? Zero. :)

We do this because we brew better and interesting beer, and because we like doing it. Very few who do it well are going to save money, at least not for a while.

PS: I've got a Blichman Hellfire propane burner on the list....$200. Maybe I can get someone to buy it for me as a Christmas present.
 
mongoose33 said:
How much you save depends on the depending things. :)

I can get my 2-row from RiteBrew.com for $38 for a 50# sack. They're about 3 hours up the road from me, and I'm by there once or twice a year. I also have a friend who heads up there occasionally who'll stop and get stuff for me. Thus, no shipping, and I'm looking at 76 cents per pound. Maris Otter, which I use a lot of, is about 99 cents in a 55# sack.

My (relatively) LHBS has base grain for $1.50/lb. I think that's crushed, but either way, look at the difference. I can do better in some places, but I have to diddle around a lot to get things to come out cheaper. So I buy bulk from Ritebrew. I haven't asked my LHBS about bulk grain, if he came close to Ritebrew I'd get it there.

I put in an RO filter; saves me about $5 in water each time bought from the store. I paid $175 for everything (dissolved solids meter, a few extra doodads, shipping), and I've saved about $75 in water so far.

***************

Many above talk about being able to control things; very true, and there's an additional advantage. I store my grain, for the most part, in sealed containers. It keeps. Crushed grain will go stale.

But in the end, if this hobby were purely about saving money, we probably wouldn't do it. I've got, <mentally adding> well over $1000 in kegs, keezer, lines, faucets, regulators, tanks......$175 in a RO system...$100+ in a ph meter...$160 in a kettle...a grain mill for $130...another $200 in brewing ancillaries....a ferm chamber fridge for $100....couple of Inkbirds for $80....fastrack $40....laststraw beer gun $100....I'm going to stop here because I'm scaring myself.

If I don't include my time, I figure I'll break even about the year 2027...assuming I don't buy anything else. And the odds of that? Zero. :)

We do this because we brew better and interesting beer, and because we like doing it. Very few who do it well are going to save money, at least not for a while.

PS: I've got a Blichman Hellfire propane burner on the list....$200. Maybe I can get someone to buy it for me as a Christmas present.
Click to expand...

I agree, I don't think anyone in this hobby is in it to save money. It's the love of brewing and then enjoying something you made! I don't have a grain mill and had read that buying in bulk was cheaper. When doing the math, it wasn't adding up for me. I will definitely get a grain mill at some point and will enjoy the ability to control my crush, but I was wondering if I was missing something price-wise. I'm prioritizing my upgrades and if one of the updates would save me money, that saved money could be put towards another upgrade sooner.
 
The Cereal Killer does work well, and is a great value. I eventually moved on to a three roller Monster Mill, but I didn't have to.

To me, the advantage of having a mill is that I can keep all of the grains I usually use on hand. If I decide to brew, I probably have everything here and can just do it on short notice. That, and the savings.
 
mattym5 said:
Thanks again for this find! I couldn't pass up that price with the free shipping! It's on the way! Now to get some nice air tight containers to store the uncrushed grain in. Anyone have any any containers they really like that wont break the bank?
Click to expand...

Home Depot buckets. 2 buckets hold one 50 lb. sack of grain. Label with a Sharpie.
 

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