Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

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I'm on my second batch. This is a 10 gallon batch. It smells so good in the fermentation chamber, I can hardly wait. First was very good. If aroma is any indication this 10 gallons will be gone in no time. Being a fairly new brewer, this is my first repeat brew.
 
Is there a concensus on best all grain recipe? Looking for something a bit sweeter for the unbearable vegas summer creeping up
 
Just made this stuff. Ended up using caramel 60L in place of crystal and williamette (4.7% AA). Pitched rehydrated Notty last night. took about 24 hours for any signs of activity to be seen Sitting btwn 60-62 degrees right now. Can't wait for this stuff. Should be drinkable mid-, to late-, April.
 
I just brewed a Bavarian Heffeweissen kit and instead of adding the suggested 2 gallons of cold water to the fermenter, I added two gallons of unfiltered apple juice and two cups of sugar (al la Apfulwein). I will call this Graff, Apfulweissen!
 
I made this on 2/1/2015. I mostly followed the main recipe, .5# Crystal 60, 1oz flaked wheat, 2.5# pale LME. I chose Czech hops since I had them leftover. ~.56oz (AA=3.5%). I used Kroger Natural Apple Juice. No preservatives or absorbic acid but it was pasteurized.

I used 3.5 gal of juice plus 1 gal of wort to ferment (4.5 total). Fermented for 2 weeks at 63F, then 1 more week at 68F. I transfered to a secondary on 2/22 and added 3 cambden tablets / 2 tsp of potassium sorbate to stop fermentation and stabilize. On 3/1/15 I cold crashed the cider. On 3/14/15, I kegged the cider and back sweetened with 1/2 of saved AJ.

I tried it for the first time today and it is very good. It is sweet but not too sweet and it has a nice apple flavor. I will definitely make it again.
 
okay, I had received my lemon drop hops last week that i had ordered and decided to play around with a batch of graf I have going in the primary now. I ended up dry hopping it with 2oz of lemon drop hops and now getting ready to put it in the secondary Tonight or tomorrow. Air lock smells great, just wondering if anyone's tried this before? :D
 
JoeLowPro said:
I just brewed a Bavarian Heffeweissen kit and instead of adding the suggested 2 gallons of cold water to the fermenter, I added two gallons of unfiltered apple juice and two cups of sugar (al la Apfulwein). I will call this Graff, Apfulweissen!
Click to expand...

What was your starting gravity on this beast? Sounds interesting to say the least. What yeast are you using? I'm guessing the Wiehenstephaner?
 
I forgot to take a gravity test but it was beastly. Used Danstar Munich Wheat yeast. Primaried in corney keg with a blowoff tube in to a gallon apple juice bottle, 1/4 full of water. Huge mess in the fermenteezer!
 
Brewed a gallon in the beginning of November with some store bought apple juice (not the cheapest but average). Popped a few bottles last weekend - apple aroma and flavour clearly present but it still seemed a bit too tart - similar to white wine. A dollop of honey in the glass smoothed it out but the taste changes significantly. Adding sugar made it watery. Going to try sweetening it with apple juice in the glass (but that'll just dilute the alcohol).
I'm kind of so-so on this. Next I'll try dry hopping a cider kit (that I know tastes amazing by its own).
 
Just put my 5th batch in the chamber last night. If fermentation isnt going strong by lunch Ill likely put another 5g in tomorrow. Was going to 10g together but thought I would try some different hops in the second batch.
 
@pontiac_guy,
FG 1.012

No starting gravity reading was taken. Best guess is 1.080. Kit said OG = 1.049, but I didn't add water. Calculating backwards to deduce gravity withou... BG = BV (EG/EV)
BV = 4.5 gal
(I leave half gallon oh head space)
EG = 49 pts
EV = 2.5 gal
BG = 4.5 (49/2.5)
Or 88 pts without diluting with water / before adding AJ & sugar
AJ&S is known from previous recipes to be 70 pts
Calculated average ((2.5 * 88) + (2 * 70))/4.5
80 pts or 1.080

About 9% ABV IF my math is right. I'll be the first to admit these calculations are fuzzy at best.

Tasted very encouraging at half way point. No off flavors noticed but of course yeast was still strong.

It's carbed now and a few days from 4 weeks in.
 
Thought I'd just like to share my thoughts on my experiences making graff and in recipe making.

I've probably made almost 30 batches now, its become kind of my regular thing. My main variant that I make, the recipe of which changes from time to time, is what I refer to as schwartzbeir graff. Basically dark but not roasty at all , fairly tart and a nice balance between malty and crisp, with a nice head. (I'll post my most recent recipe soon)

In general, especially for my purposes, I found the best way to incorporate the malt both in flavor and color was to mash the grain in the apple juice itself (I use a BIAB method). I realize the osmotic potential is way lower here so it doesn't raise the gravity as much as you would expect, but this is basically the only way that I've worked out to reliably get a dark color (adding even very dark wort to apple juice usually results in nothing darker than a nut brown ale)

As to grain I usually add a mixture of pilsener, munich malt, chocolate wheat malt (carafa II or III usually has a roastier flavor, this is sometimes labelled as midnight wheat) and flaked barley for head. The more munich you add the sweeter the final product will taste. Basically the same principles I've used here should be applicable to make graff in the style of other beer types by changing grain and mash characteristics.

I've had good success with a variety of hops, for me I like to add quite a bit more than the original recipe (usually I like noble hops) mostly because I think hops can compete rather than overwhelm the apple flavor. 2-3 oz for me is fairly subtle in a five gallon batch compared to what you can buy nowadays, even with some high alpha cultivars I've tried.

Mostly ditto comments of the people here on recommending clean beer yeasts. I use a kolsch yeast most of the time that balances well for my purposes. Safale US-05 is another great go to. Some of the other california yeast strains do a good job of adding floral estery character into graff that I like, but It's usually not what I'm going for so I thought I'd mention that. White labs cider yeast is phenomenal, if you like clean tasting stuff that yeast ferments pretty quick and clears very quick (seems to me like it precipitates in a powder and still ferments on the bottom quite a bit). In short, I think yeast choice in graff can make a big difference, so I'll let y'all have fun with that.

That's it for now, thanks Brandon O for getting so many going on this and making some great homebrew.
 
I do what you could call it an Apple Ale. It is 65% wort and 35% pressed apple cider. I used a Kolsch yeast cake from a previous Kolsch beer. I tried some tonight and it is actually more than a sour beer than a cider. Threw me for a loop since normally my graffs are sweet. If it is infected that's the best tasting infected beer I've ever had.
 
Planning on making this for my wedding! We'd be brewing it today, but the wedding isn't until September. I also plan on using store-bought cider, and blending in my favorite juice (a blend of pear, grape, and a hint of orange and apple) and using nottingham yeast. What would you say should be the max time in the carboy before bottling? Do you think it would be better to leave in the carboy for about a month, bottle condition for around two weeks or however long it needs to carbonate, then chill for the remaining three months? Or should I let it age a while longer before bottling and chilling?
 
Brew it now. The age will help it imho but ymmv. Plus, if it sucks, you have time to try again. I'd you want it clear, stick to apple juice, and keep away from the cider. I boost my gravity with a a few cans of frozen apple juice concentrate as well.
 
Just finished up a batch this morning. Used 1/2 lb crystal 120, 2lb amber DME, 1/2 oz cascade hops, US-05 yeast, and left out the torrified wheat. Couldn't find juice w/o Vit c so it may be tart for a while but I made a batch a couple years ago and it turned out well. Now for the waiting game!
 
JoeLowPro said:
I just brewed a Bavarian Heffeweissen kit and instead of adding the suggested 2 gallons of cold water to the fermenter, I added two gallons of unfiltered apple juice and two cups of sugar (al la Apfulwein). I will call this Graff, Apfulweissen!
Click to expand...

I wanted to follow up sooner but forgot. Early on (two weeks keg conditioning) this tasted a bit like a Belgian Ale but by 4 weeks it started to come around to the taste I was hoping for. It was well received and consumed rapidly. SWMBO is asking me to brew another batch. I found it a bit too heavy for sustained drinking.

My next Graf will likely be done similarly (partial boil extract adding sugary juice instead of water) but I'm thinking of starting with an American Blonde (or Amber) Ale kit.
 
JoeLowPro said:
I wanted to follow up sooner but forgot. Early on (two weeks keg conditioning) this tasted a bit like a Belgian Ale but by 4 weeks it started to come around to the taste I was hoping for. It was well received and consumed rapidly. SWMBO is asking me to brew another batch. I found it a bit too heavy for sustained drinking.

My next Graf will likely be done similarly (partial boil extract adding sugary juice instead of water) but I'm thinking of starting with an American Blonde (or Amber) Ale kit.
Click to expand...

JoeLow, you da man!
I have been doing the same thing with various NB kits, as I dont have the balls to start messing around with individual components. I have three....no four under my belt and they have all been tasty. After I finish my kits this summer, I think I am ready to start brewing the actual BrandonO recipe.
GL!
 
Has anyone done this with tart cherry juice? I love it more than just about any juice I've ever tasted. If so, would you use tart cherry for the full 4 gallons or more like just 1 or 2?
 
So I was asked to make a beer for a wedding and the two ingredients were apples and walnuts. So someone on this site turned me onto this link. I bottled it yesterday and it tasted strangely excellent. I used 1lb Amber and 1lb lite dme. It followed everything from the first posting, but I added roasted walnuts. It added big smokey/ woody flavor. Needless to say, I threw more cider on top of the yeast cake/ walnut bed. This brew keeps on giving. The only drawback was that walnuts are $15/ lb and I used 3lbs! View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1433812395.506852.jpg
 
I made a batch of apfelwein 3 years ago and wasn't too impressed. I used brown sugar instead of dextrose so I'm not sure if the sucrose did it but there is a terrible sour green apple taste that is a bit overpowering. It seemed to get better after a while then there seemed to be a almost a celery after taste to it. It just never seemed to be what I thought it would...it was always very tart, like a not so good dry wine.

I was thinking recently I'd like to try something again but not use sugar this time. I wanted a way to have at least some residual sweetness and body so it didn't end up tasting like a dry white wine. I was planning on using DME, but then thought why not mash some pale malt instead since I already had 60lbs of it on hand and no DME. Then upon searching I stumbled upon this thread. Huh, just when I thought I was onto something unique lol...

I took 2.25 gallons of great value apple juice(like I used for the apfelwein), then mashed 2lbs of pale malt and 4oz of crystal 60L in a gallon of water at between 157-160. I rinsed the grain with a quart of water after the mash and boiled off a bit then to get down to a gallon or a bit less. The gravity of that gallon was 1.076, the apple juice alone was 1.050

I ended up adding another quart of water to bring the OG down to 1.054 and pitched notty ale yeast. I don't know how dry it will finish, but this should get me to somewhere around 6.5% ish.

I didn't use any hops this time because I just want to see if the cider itself turns out better than the apfelwein did. My fingers are crossed. I'll have to post back once fermentation is done and I can sneak a sip.
 
I kegged a version of this yesterday. Its my first graff. I fermented for 2 weeks then cold crashed for a week. It tastes good without carbonation. I must keep my hands off it and let it carb up lol. Here's my version of it...

Steeped in 1 gallon of water (single sparge)
-.5 lbs crystal 10
-.5 lbs crystal 60
- .25 lbs biscuit malt
1 3.3 lbs can of amber LME
.25 oz magnum hops
topped off to 5.25 gallons with apple juice
Nottingham yeast

OG 1.060 FG 1.015
 
I just bottled my batch. OG was 1.054 and it finished at 1.010 which was higher than I thought it would. It is plenty sweet IMO and now I'm curious what it would have done with just straight apple juice and notty yeast. Mashing at 160 definitely gave some unfermentables and some body to this cider. It isn't overly sweet necessarily, but I am curious as to how it will taste once carb'd up. There is a nice tartness but the sweetness from the malt really balances it out nicely.

This is by far better than my apfelwein attempt. It has plenty of apple character and a nice malty aspect to it. I am also curious as to what a smidge of hops in the boil would have done to this. It looks like there are going to be a few experiments to be done this summer. In the mean time I suppose I'll wait a couple of weeks for these to carb up.
 
Just bottled my latest batch on Saturday and am already getting into this stash!

So far, this is the best batch I've made yet. Temp control of the steeping grains was maximized by using a preheated 2 gallon Coleman lunchbox/cooler, and this was my first batch where I used a swamp cooler to control fermentation temps.

The taste is slightly fruity and light malt. No bitterness from the .5 oz of cascade used in the boil. If I can keep my hands off until it's fully carbed, this will be an awesome summer quencher. Patience, grasshopper...
 
I'm thinking of mixing it up a bit for my next batch, maybe use wheat DME and dark DME instead of just amber DME. Has anyone done something like this yet, and how did you like it?
 
I tasted one of my ciders after just over a week in the bottles and I was thoroughly impressed. It was very tasty, crisp apple taste up front and a nice malt finish to it.

I will definitely be doing this again rather than apfelwein. I'm anxious to taste it again once it is fully carbed up, but I can definitely see myself doing a small hop addition in the boil to balance the sweetness. The 160 degree mash and ale yeast stopping at 1.010 made it sweeter than I expected...no where near the sweetness a commercial cider, but still some hop bitterness would balance it well I think.
 
post # 2861

LOL! does this qualify as some type of Graff?

1. Left over trub from three batches of beer.
2. 1 gallon of water.
3. 3 gallons of apple juice.

I dont know but it smells delicious!

well that turned into this... a very mild 6-7% peach flavored Graff.
Carbonated in bottles, as This was a pure bonus batch and I did not really expect it to taste like anything.

View attachment 1438730414428.jpg
 
I made this today and followed original recipe but with crystal 130 and Fuggles hops. Seemed like a lot of DME for 1 gallon water. I may have scorched a little and the wort was dark and thicker compared to what I'm used to. That's what she said. It's in the ferm chamber at 62f so we'll see how it goes.
 
Finally broke down and made the OG recipe. I have been sippin off the keg for a week, the only change I made was three pounds light DME. To those that are researching their first Graf....DO IT!.

My tastes lean towards making this with a Dark IPA (extra dark DME/LME and grains). But the OG recipe does taste good and will be the only other thing in my keezer, with my meads.
 
Made this per the original recipe on Monday night. Used Caramel 120L and a half oz of Centennial. I woke up this morning to a foamy airlock, so I cleaned it out. Below is the mess I discovered after 9 hours! This baby sure is active...

HEjJfHwh.jpg
 
I did five gallon batch, using Brandon O's recipe pretty close, I ended up using 1/2 oz of USA grown Hallertauer hops and Nottinham yeast.

I ended up using swamp cooler method to keep fermentation temps down and let it run three weeks before clearing it up and cold crashing it. I primed with 1 can FAJC and bottled two cases. I will let them carb three weeks and give it a final test. From my tasting while bottling, this is going to be very good. It goes down smooth and has good body, none of the hoochy taste, just a hint of ale, along with appley taste. Every bit as good as Red's, before this ages or carbs. It's about 9% but doesn't taste hot, I'll be starting another batch soon. I washed and saved yeast, enough for four more, at least.

I'm thinking of doing larger portion of Ale (two gallons water, 1 lb of Crystal 60L, 2 oz of flaked wheat, 3 lbs of light DME, 1/2 oz of Hallertauer) to the three gallons of apple juice and add one can FAJC in secondary, maybe trying dry hopping with 1/4oz of Hallertauer for aroma.

What do you think? Worth a try or bad idea?
 
Last edited:
Took a sample after a week in the primary. It was down to 1.010 and I did not like the taste of the sample, it tasted like my weisenbier that didn't turn out all that good. Hopefully 2 more weeks will clean it up.
 
Absolutely steller!
I just pitched my 12th batch, my first was in April. I now have narrowed my brew focus and only brew Graff's and Braggot's because of this recipe.
 
Is there a good commercial example of a similar cider? I have my apple juice, but am debating between this and EdWorts Apfelwein. Thanks!
 

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