Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

[Dust]

Welp I just brewed up my first 5 gallons last night... the brew went quite horrible but hopefully this turns out well

 

[IgloosNate]

Prime as you would a normal beer. Or you could prime it to your taste. Some people prefer a still (no carbonation) cider.

Gotcha. I just don't want bottle bombs by overpriming, and I didn't know whether I needed to do anything special. Sounds like my regular 4 oz will be just fine. I also wasn't planning on reading dozens of pages of this, but does anyone have an estimate of the target final gravity, or does it depend a lot on the quality of juice I use? (I just bought a case of Apple & Eve brand, making sure that it had none of the sorbates I was warned against.).

Thanks again!

 

[IgloosNate]

Also, I know that this is a recipe meant for being drinkable fast, but in people's experience does it age well, and will anything bad happen if I do 3-4 weeks' primary like I would with a beer? It'll be that long until I can free up/collect some empties.

 

[BrewerBear]

3 or 4 week primary is no problem.Everything I've read is it ages well,my first batch just kept getting better now it's gone all but 2 bottles.

 

[ZombieBrew83]

Also, I know that this is a recipe meant for being drinkable fast, but in people's experience does it age well, and will anything bad happen if I do 3-4 weeks' primary like I would with a beer? It'll be that long until I can free up/collect some empties.

3-4 weeks is my normal for a beer of this gravity and is plenty of time for Graff since it is comprised mostly of simple sugars. No need to fret the time table. If you follow the original recipe (or one that has posted finished tasting results) you should be fine. This can be tart in the beginning, but it will mellow out very nicely over time.

3 or 4 week primary is no problem.Everything I've read is it ages well,my first batch just kept getting better now it's gone all but 2 bottles.

You know what they say, the beer is adequately aged when you're pouring your last bottle.

 

[user 83772]

Been meaning to try this recipe out for awhile - got the grains steeping now for a 2-gallon batch. I accidentally bought twice as much Crystal 120L as I needed yesterday, so as soon as I have another fermenter free in a few days I'll be brewing up another batch with shredded ginger in place of the hop addition.

 

[jdees]

Been meaning to try this recipe out for awhile - got the grains steeping now for a 2-gallon batch. I accidentally bought twice as much Crystal 120L as I needed yesterday, so as soon as I have another fermenter free in a few days I'll be brewing up another batch with shredded ginger in place of the hop addition.

Make sure to post back with your ginger results. This sounds like a nice conbination.

 

[user 83772]

Make sure to post back with your ginger results. This sounds like a nice conbination.

I definetly will. My wife is usually the cider-drinker in the family, and a freak for anything ginger flavored. I personally find most hard ciders too sweet or too tart, so hopefully the maltiness will mellow some of that out and give us something I can drink as well.

 

[woknblues]

I just picked up my grain bill, going to brew this tomorrow for a ten gallon batch.

6lb two row
1lb special b
4 oz honey malt
4 oz flaked wheat
8 oz carapils
1 oz us fuggles

I really want some body, residual sweetness and head retention here....

+8 gallons of sam's club AJ

Poured onto safeale-04 cakes... I will do one up as quick as the recipe calls for , the other will bulk age.

So I did this the other day. A nice and easy brew day for a 10 gallon batch. I am looking forward to what the special b, flaked wheat and honey malts add to the mix. I did forget to siphon off the hops, but I suspect they will drop out of suspension by the time I rack...The sa-04 cakes were not ready at pitching time, so I dropped in fresh sa-05. Airlocks are bubbling away. Looking forward to this, thanks for the recipe/idea.

I just kegged this last night, one is force carbing at 30, the other is going to just set to 10lb and get there whenever.... It smelled and looked amazing. Nice dark golden brown in color, the apple smell was much more pronounced since my last hydro sample a month ago. Also, none of the harshness I was a bit worried about in my small taste. I am looking forward to some nice head retention and a bit of residual sweetness with my tweaks. I am not a fan of the dry applewine type of cider. Oh, the stuff was crystal clear coming out all the way down to the trub, so no worries on not straining the hops. I am starting to realize that you can almost do everything wrong, and still make great stuff.

 

[woknblues]

BTW...anyone tried making a sour graf? I blended a Brett Saison and Apfelwein and it was fantastic but I wonder if it will be as good brewed together rather than blended post fermentation.

This sounds really good. I hope you post more of your experiments.

Okay, I keep a house cider on tap at all times and the best advise I can give (if you keg) is use the standard recipe and then vary the final product by adding your favorite fruit flavor. I usually do this by adding a gallon of pomagranite/cherry/blueberry or your fav.....right at kegging. This means using about a gallon less apple juice up front to make about 4 gallons cider, so the additional juice at kegging is strictly for backsweetening/flavor. Usually ends up about 6%Abv and very drinkable! This recipe is almost bullet proof, turns out however you adjust. Current batch is a Pom/Blueberry mix by Tropicana....Awesome!

This is a great idea, and since I am kegging, an easy fix if it is too dry. I really don't care for dry apple cider. That's what we have (grape) wine for, right?

Is there an official AG version of this? I'm sick of paying for DME/LME and i just participated in a grain bulk buy so......

I see you found an all grain recipe already. I also did all grain. An easy BIAB, even for a 10 gallon batch of graff. .

 

[runs4beer]

Woknblues:
I did almost the same but w/ Barid's C155° instead of special B
And no honey malt.
What was your SG and FG?

 

[woknblues]

Woknblues:
I did almost the same but w/ Barid's C155° instead of special B
And no honey malt.
What was your SG and FG?

I tried the honey malt as it was in an american wheat that I made, and I really enjoyed a nice residual sweetness from it. It isn't a smack you in the face "sickly sweet", although it might at higher doses, but certainly not at the levels I am using. It doesn't upset the refreshing aspects of the beverage, but still adds some "respectful" sweetness. Using special B is new to me so far (that will change soon), but it seems to have some nice complexities and appropriate nuances that will aid in what I am hoping to achieve with this brew.

My SG was 1.065, and I am embarrassed to say that I forgot to take a reading of it when I transferred it to kegs. I am not worried about the ferment, because it tastes plenty good at this point, and with kegs, it doesn't really matter too much anyway. After almost 3 months, I'd say she is done. I poured off a couple of bottles, so I will probably check the gravity then, just for the sake of knowing what happened!

 

[jgonzo108]

Another Update:

Well, this stuff is really coming around. It has been in the bottle for 8 weeks and I must say, this stuff does get better with age. The tartness has almost completely subsided and the apple flavor is really coming through. I almost wish I had primed with AJ concentrate to see if that would have added some sweetness to it so the wife would enjoy it a little more. She still prefers her Woodchuck Amber but hey, more for me..

 

[woknblues]

I tried the honey malt as it was in an american wheat that I made, and I really enjoyed a nice residual sweetness from it. It isn't a smack you in the face "sickly sweet", although it might at higher doses, but certainly not at the levels I am using. It doesn't upset the refreshing aspects of the beverage, but still adds some "respectful" sweetness. Using special B is new to me so far (that will change soon), but it seems to have some nice complexities and appropriate nuances that will aid in what I am hoping to achieve with this brew.

My SG was 1.065, and I am embarrassed to say that I forgot to take a reading of it when I transferred it to kegs. I am not worried about the ferment, because it tastes plenty good at this point, and with kegs, it doesn't really matter too much anyway. After almost 3 months, I'd say she is done. I poured off a couple of bottles, so I will probably check the gravity then, just for the sake of knowing what happened!

Forced carb tasting update:
This stuff is going to be awesome. Nice apple flavor is at the front. Nice creamy head and some lacing (hoping for more when fully carbed). The honey malt is there at the end, helping push back the tartness that is so common in apple ciders. It is good enough to drink right now, but I am going to force myself to wait a couple weeks until carbing is completely done. I may use the method of backsweetening in the keg with a couple pints of fresh juice if it dries out more. No worries. I am glad I took a chance and brewed 10 gallons, we will be getting through this stuff fast!

 

[Safa]

Just bottled my 2.5 gal batch. Pretty impressed with the flavour right out of primary!

 

[casesensative]

So after checking out this thread I came up with my own all-grain recipe and brewed it up today:

I do 3 GAL batches and I used:

.3 lbs Crystal 120L
.6 oz flaked barley (instead of wheat, for head retention - its what I had lying around)
2.4 GAL Motts Apple Juice
.6 Gal water (for wort)
.3 oz EK Goldings (whole hops)
3 Lbs. Maris Otter Pale Malt

rehydrated and pitched US-05 somewhere around 60F

Measured OG was 1.062.

Here's to hoping this turns out well!

Anyone have any idea how much AJ concentrate to use at bottling time for a 3 GAL batch to help give it more sweetness?

Will let everyone know how it turns out!

Ok so I just bottled this tonight. My FG check LAST Friday was 1.012 and
that was after two weeks. So I gave it an extra third week, and tonight the FG reads 1.011. It went down slightly, but I've decided to go ahead and bottle it anyways, as I don't feel like it will ferment anymore than maybe an extra point. The ABV as it stands is 6.8%.

I have a party on saturday I'm going to and wanted to take 2 swing top liter EZ bottles of it with me. I also wanted it sweet. So I backsweetened these two with some white grape juice concentrate I had laying around. I plan on letting them carb for a day and then putting them in the fridge to prevent bottle bombs and keep a lot of the sugar.

There's no way these could go bottle bombs overnight is there? I added to taste and made no measurements of any sort.

For the rest of the bottles I sweetened to 2.5 Carb vols with sucrose, leaving room for any bit of extra fermenting it may do. These will get the standard 3 week treatment. If they seem to be getting too carbed after two weeks, I'll throw em all in the fridge to prevent bottle bombs.

Hopefully nothing blows up, but these EZ cap swing top bottles seem like they can take a bit of pressure anyways.

Here's to hoping!

(Oh, btw...the sampling at bottling time was a bit bitter. The 2 bottles I sweetened balanced out the tartness very well. I think these need to be backsweetened to help balance out the tartness.)

 

[Side_fx]

Does anyone prime before bottling? I know most english ciders have very little carbonation.

 

[sweed]

Another Update:

Well, this stuff is really coming around. It has been in the bottle for 8 weeks and I must say, this stuff does get better with age. The tartness has almost completely subsided and the apple flavor is really coming through. I almost wish I had primed with AJ concentrate to see if that would have added some sweetness to it so the wife would enjoy it a little more. She still prefers her Woodchuck Amber but hey, more for me..

If you primed with the AJ concentrate, would you have to worry about bottle bombs, and cold crash after it reaches the level of carbonation you want? Or could you let it bottle condition for however long you want without worrying about that?
Would the 12oz concentrate be equal to the 3-5oz of dextrose, is what I'm trying to figure out?

 

[casesensative]

If you primed with the AJ concentrate, would you have to worry about bottle bombs, and cold crash after it reaches the level of carbonation you want? Or could you let it bottle condition for however long you want without worrying about that?
Would the 12oz concentrate be equal to the 3-5oz of dextrose, is what I'm trying to figure out?

If you carbed with AJ concentrate to the right amount (equal to the normal amount of sugar you'd be priming with) then you wouldnt have to worry about bottle bombs (as long as its fully fermented).

If you carb with more than that, then clearly you will eventually have issues.

There's a whole thread on priming with various things on here, I'm sure that thread can help you figure out how much AJ to use....or I'm sure you can google it and find it somewhere.

 

[watkinsj15]

Hey Guys,
Im in the process of launching a cider house, Sociable Cider Werks, in Minneapolis, MN this coming fall. Both my biz-partner and I self identify as beer guys and as such don't have much of a taste for the overly sweetened, mostly flat, ciders that are currently commercially available. In our mission to produce a cider that is more palatable to our craft beer tastes (lets be honest, this is more of a pursuit driven by our own taste buds than by our business sense, Ha!) we have started to add some beer adjuncts with a lot of success. That’s when I found this thread. So excited to see that home brewers have been doing this for some time, and enjoying the results! I thought I would share one of our more interesting recipes with you guys. Feel free to brew it on your own, and let me know what you think! Feedback and tweaks expected and welcome!

On these batches we have been brewing 5 gallons, using 1-2 gallons of wort for each 5 gallon recipe of graff, and then using the remaining beer wort to ferment the beer by itself. Its nice to kill two birds with one stone.

Wit Apple Graff
4.5 lbs 2 row
4.5 lbs terrified wheat
1lb flaked oats
½ lb honey malt
1/3 lb rice hulls

¼ oz millennium (15.25%) for 60 mins

1/3 oz correander
1.25 oz sweet orange peel
and .5 oz saaz for 5 mins

Mash thin (2qts/ lb), and high (69 c). Mash in ~5.5 gallons and then sparge with another 3 gallons of h20 and you can hit a 1.055 OG after the boil. This leads to a lower attenuation wort, which adds a lot of body to the final product. After all, you don’t need a lot of sugar conversion from the malt since the AJ already has so much sugar. Based on your taste mix 1-2 gallons of this wort with the remainder AJ to make a 5 gallon batch and pitch your favorite wit or weizen yeast. 2 weeks in primary and another 4 in secondary yields a very smooth and drinkable product. All the flavors of a wit, without the “I just ate a whole loaf a bread” bloating.

One final note, we have found that any residual tartness can usually be taken care of with 3-5% by volume AJ add back before carbonation. If you are force carbonating cold, just keep it cold after bottling or kegging to avoid bottle bombs. If you are bottle priming, go with a little more (5-7.5% by volume) juice, and then refrigerate early so the yeast doesn’t eat up all the priming sugar. This touch of juice doesn’t make the product sweet, just rounds it out and takes the edge off that cider tartness.

Anyhow, sorry for writing a dissertation here. Thought you guys might enjoy.

 

[TANSTAAFB]

Where can I find terrified wheat?

=]

Seriously, thanks for the input. Just couldn't let that slide! That would be an AWESOME addition to any Halloween brew!

 

[watkinsj15]

Where can I find terrified wheat?




=]

Seriously, thanks for the input. Just couldn't let that slide! That would be an AWESOME addition to any Halloween brew!

hahahah! That wheat was scared to death on the way into the tun! Darn spell checker!

 

[Dust]

Speaking of scared, I'm kind of scared to move forward with my batch of Graff. It is currently sitting in my ferm bucket going on 3 weeks. Would it be better to bottle it then let it sit or leave it in the bucket for a bit longer before I bottle it? I made lots of mistakes on brew day so I feel hesitant...

 

[batty]

Speaking of scared, I'm kind of scared to move forward with my batch of Graff. It is currently sitting in my ferm bucket going on 3 weeks. Would it be better to bottle it then let it sit or leave it in the bucket for a bit longer before I bottle it? I made lots of mistakes on brew day so I feel hesitant...

Taste it and find out!

Though even if it needs more time, time in the bottle is good too. Or move to secondary and bulk age there.. less potential issues to worry about

 

[ccostel]

Modified ZombieBrew83's recipe... Thanks

Brewed this up this evening. That Trader Joes apple juice is really good.

OG 1.072

4 gallons Trader Joe's McIntosh Apple Juice
3 lbs LDME
1 lb Crystal 40L
8oz Maltodextrin
1 oz East Kent Golding 4.0%AA @30min
Ferment with Wyeast 1968 London ESB

 

[ccostel]

Correction... The yeast pack was old and didn't work, so I had to use US-04 instead.
Current ambient temp in the fermentation fridge is set to 63 degrees Fahrenheit. Trying to avoid bubble gum flavor that I read this yeast may produce.

 

[CiderRules]

My adaptations to recipe:
Cherry Oat Graff

1lb 60L
only 1lb LDME
WLP300 hefeweizen yeast
.5oz UK Kent Goldings hop pellets (would probably up the hops a bit next time, not very detectable in wort or final product.)
1 cup of oat groat (instead of torrified wheat. For body, mouthfeel, and head retention)

I prepared the groats by rinsing until clear and then soaking in water for 30min. I drained everything but a small bit of water and added it to a blender. Blended until groats were broken and water was a milk color. Then I added it to the grains for steeping.

OG 1.055 fermented for a week in primary, hydro samples tasted strongly of bananas(which was quite enjoyable. very fruity) fermentation finished at 1.010. Racked onto 1/4 gal Knudsen Just Black Cherry juice and 1/4 gal Knudsen Just Tart Cherry juice which brought the SG to 1.015. 2 weeks in secondary until fermentation had finished at 1.010 and bottled with another 1/4 gal Knudsen Just Black Cherry juice and 1/4 gal Knudsen Just Tart Cherry juice. Still a little dry, I added a can of Old Orchard Apple-Cherry and it was just right. Stupid me, forgot to check the FG of the backsweetened cider. I added another can of apple-cherry for priming. Out of the bottling bucket, it tasted delicious. I would gauge it at about 1.015, semi-sweet, and taste like a cherry soda. Waiting for them to carbonate so I can pasteurize and try them carb'd!

With an adjusted OG of 1.06 it comes out to about 6.5-7%
[Edit] didn't adjust for the 1/4 gallon dilution, probably around 5.5-6% then.

Just tried one in a cold glass over ice fully carbed and WOW.Probably the best I have made so far, and this is only 6 weeks since starting! The hefeweizen yeast left a very fruity flavour and a nice cloudy rustic look, like Scrumpy's. The oats really bring out the creamyness and mouth feel. Cost a bit for the cherry juice, but I definitely think it was worth it.

 

[ZombieBrew83]

This recipe is so fun! I have been tinkering with the original recipe to find a way to reduce the tartness but maintain the apple flavor. This recent attempt is perfection or as close to it as I think it will ever be. If you're looking for a way to reduce the tart flavor, try this.

OG 1.059
FG 1.012
Fermented at 68 for two weeks then force carbed for 2 days. First sample was incredible.

4 gallons Trader Joe's McIntosh Apple Juice
3 lbs XLDME
1 lb Crystal 40L
8oz CaraPils
1 oz Styrian Golding 3.8%AA @30min
Ferment with Wyeast 1968 London ESB

The juice is a huge factor in this. Even though juice with vitamin C will work, it produces harsh tartness in the final product. More so than juice without the Vitamin C. This Trader Joe's juice caught my attention when my wife brought a bottle home. The flavor is much softer than anything else I've tried and the flavor/aroma is just like biting into a ripe McIntosh apple.

I found Nottingham, S-05, and S-04 dry this recipe out too much and don't leave much of the apple flavor/aroma behind. this London ESB yeast did a good job leaving enough sweetness behind to make this more palatable. Even though it has only been in the keg for a couple days, the initial tasting is much better than any of my previous attempts. Still tart, but better balance and more apple aroma/flavor remaining. I'm sure it will continue to mellow out as time goes on bringing out the apple even more.

Update:
I've had this in the keezer for several weeks now and it continues to improve. There is more apple in the nose and finish and what little tartness there was has mellowed nicely. The Fuller's yeast preformed excellently and kept more of the apple character in the finished product than my other iterations. This is such a great, crisp, easy drinking beverage! Makes me look forward to warmer weather.

I like the idea of tossing some oats in the mix. I might keep that in mind the next time I'm putting this together. Although, this current batch is near perfection.

 

[iluv2brew]

Tonight I'm going to make 3 gal. of the original recipe and then I think I might give ZombieBrew83 recipe a try as it sounds pretty tstay too.

 

[sweed]

I'm making this right now. 3 gallons of some kmart special AJ, haha. Total will be 4 gallons. It was last minute I decided to do this tonight. I got a lb each of light and amber dme. Half lb of 120. S05 yeast and .4 oz of cascade 6.2% AA. I'll make sure my temp in the apt gets low to ferment this stuff.

Edit: blonde moment.... I grabbed 3 half gallon bottles of apple juice, duh! I shouldn't have a problem dumping those 3 more (1.5 gallons) into the carboy tomorrow to fill up to 4 gallons right? Rushing around not even thinking.