Golden/White/Blonde/Whatever Stout Recipe Review

[VladTheImpaler]

I know this isn't technically a true beer "style", but me and a buddy tried one at a local brewpub and it inspired us to try and make our own. It's our first recipe without following anyone else's grain bill, etc. So feel free to review it and give pointers and opinions!


Grain

12 lb - Maris Otter
1 lb - Crystal 40L
1 lb - Flaked Oats
1 lb - Lactose (added w/ 10 minutes left in boil)
0.50 lb - Carapils

Hops

1 oz Magnum @ 60 min

Yeast

WLP001

Dry hopping with 4 oz. of ground coffee and 2 oz. of cacao nibs soaked in vodka.

Mashing for 60 min @ 154F, fly sparge, boiling for 60 min.

Should give me an SRM around 10-12 with an estimated ABV of 8%.

 

[cladinshadows]

Absolutely no reason you have to brew a technical "true beer style", obviously. Your recipe seems like a solid starting point for what you want. I'd guess you're going to have to tweak this one a few times before you nail it.

I would be prepared to increase the coffee and cacao amounts. If you're relying on those ingredients alone to contribute the stout-esque character you may need more to really create that sensory moment where you say "wait a minute, this is pale but it tastes like a stout!".

I'd also consider omitting the lactose for your first batch or at least be ready to wish you didn't have it in there - without the balancing bitterness and astringency of the roasted grains/malts you may not end up wishing for more sweetness.

Good luck! As a coffee and roasted grain lover this is not a style I understand, but I like black IPAs and that "style" is certainly plenty gimmicky in its own right! Please report back with what you did and how it turned out.

 

[VladTheImpaler]

Thanks! I was reading about the cacao nibs and coffee and for a 5 gal batch those seemed like the preferred amounts so it's not overpowering, but I'm sure it'll require some tweaking.

As for the ground coffee, do I just throw it in when it's time to dry hop as I would with hops? Or should I soak the grounds in some vodka as well to be safe?

 

[plazola86]

Just brewed my golden stout its carbing in the keg as we speak but have taken a few "samples", perfect color and huge coffee nose on mine. My grain bill and mash looked almost exactly like yours but I used American 2 -row instead of Maris otter, no crystal but same amount of honey malt instead. I added 4 ounces of ground coffee two days before kegging. Ill post a picture later today.

 

[VladTheImpaler]

Just brewed my golden stout its carbing in the keg as we speak but have taken a few "samples", perfect color and huge coffee nose on mine. My grain bill and mash looked almost exactly like yours but I used American 2 -row instead of Maris otter, no crystal but same amount of honey malt instead. I added 4 ounces of ground coffee two days before kegging. Ill post a picture later today.

Good to hear! I wanted to use maris otter for its slightly more malty flavor, for me anyway.

Did you use any cacao nibs along with the coffee?

 

[plazola86]

No cocoa nibs on this one but I have used them on stouts before. I threw them on some bourbon then just threw the whole tincture in (bourbon and nibs). I put the coffee in a sanitized filter and just tossed the coffee dry, didn't soak that in anything.

 

[VladTheImpaler]

No cocoa nibs on this one but I have used them on stouts before. I threw them on some bourbon then just threw the whole tincture in (bourbon and nibs). I put the coffee in a sanitized filter and just tossed the coffee dry, didn't soak that in anything.

Do you think 2 oz. cacao nibs would be enough? I'm looking for coffee to take the lead on this one, with only a slight chocolate undertone.

 

[cladinshadows]

As for the ground coffee, do I just throw it in when it's time to dry hop as I would with hops? Or should I soak the grounds in some vodka as well to be safe?

The method that has given me the best results is the first one you mention: the "dry-beaning" method, though since I keg I just add the beans to the keg in a bag or tea ball. The fresh ground coffee aroma was out of this world - you smell it as soon as you open the tap. Crush the beans pretty coarsely, and just add them to the beer. Risk of infection may be there, but I have only ever added it to cold beer in a keg, so there wasn't an issue. I'd guess the roasting process probably does a bit to reduce the chances.

I have also tried the coffee tincture/extract method. When I did it there was not as much fresh coffee aroma and it had an over-extracted character. That could have been a result of me leaving them to soak too long, though, so you may have better luck. I let it go 3 days.

I have also added cold-pressed coffee. That was my least favorite method as everything seemed very muted. Again, could have easily been poor execution on my part.

 

[VladTheImpaler]

The method that has given me the best results is the first one you mention: the "dry-beaning" method, though since I keg I just add the beans to the keg in a bag or tea ball. The fresh ground coffee aroma was out of this world - you smell it as soon as you open the tap. Crush the beans pretty coarsely, and just add them to the beer. Risk of infection may be there, but I have only ever added it to cold beer in a keg, so there wasn't an issue. I'd guess the roasting process probably does a bit to reduce the chances.



I have also tried the coffee tincture/extract method. When I did it there was not as much fresh coffee aroma and it had an over-extracted character. That could have been a result of me leaving them to soak too long, though, so you may have better luck. I let it go 3 days.



I have also added cold-pressed coffee. That was my least favorite method as everything seemed very muted. Again, could have easily been poor execution on my part.

I'm honestly leaning towards the coarse-ground "dry beaning" method. I have yet to decide if I'm going to just put them in a keg and let them sit until the beers all gone or just dry hop before bottling/kegging.

Any suggestions on coffee? From my reading the darker the roast the better to prevent the green pepper aroma.

 

[cladinshadows]

I would go with that (the dry-beaning). With my process it's far and away the best flavor and aroma so it's all I ever do.

I like to use highly roasted coffee because that's also what I like to drink - generally a french roast. I'm not looking for brightness or acidity or to "taste the origin" (usually what coffee people like about light roasts), I'm looking for the sweet/nutty/caramelized/burnt/roasty flavors and aromas you get from roasting some beans into oblivion. I think that's probably particularly important if you want to complete the "stout" effect.

 

[VladTheImpaler]

I would go with that (the dry-beaning). With my process it's far and away the best flavor and aroma so it's all I ever do.

I like to use highly roasted coffee because that's also what I like to drink - generally a french roast. I'm not looking for brightness or acidity or to "taste the origin" (usually what coffee people like about light roasts), I'm looking for the sweet/nutty/caramelized/burnt/roasty flavors and aromas you get from roasting some beans into oblivion. I think that's probably particularly important if you want to complete the "stout" effect.

I think that's certainly what I'm going to do. We'll be brewing this up tomorrow so I'll report back with how everything went!

 

[plazola86]

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1486418003.656186.jpg

Carbing up nicely.

 

[VladTheImpaler]

View attachment 387911

Carbing up nicely.

Very nice! I'm certainly excited to brew this up tomorrow.

My LHBS didn't have any of Crystal 40L in stock so I ended up having to go with the 45L, so we'll see how much that affects the color.

Beersmith didn't have an option that I saw for 45L. Only increments of 10's.

 

[bolus14]

For dry beaning I have done coarse ground and just thrown the whole beans in. My preference is to just use the whole bean, I got better aroma and the taste was smoother, slightly but still preferable. I have found that 20-24 hours works pretty well, I have left the beans in for 3 days as well, and I would say it didn't hurt, but I don't think the flavor or aroma was anymore than what I got just putting them in for 20 hours.

 

[cladinshadows]

For dry beaning I have done coarse ground and just thrown the whole beans in. My preference is to just use the whole bean, I got better aroma and the taste was smoother, slightly but still preferable. I have found that 20-24 hours works pretty well, I have left the beans in for 3 days as well, and I would say it didn't hurt, but I don't think the flavor or aroma was anymore than what I got just putting them in for 20 hours.

Interesting. I have not tried whole beans as I've just assumed that what I want dissolving into the beer is a least partially contained within the roasted bean. Your experience suggests that it could be that most or all of the character you want comes from the surface oils. Maybe you can use more uncrushed beans to get higher intensity of the good coffee character and less of the astringency. I'll have to try my own side-by-side comparison someday.

 

[VladTheImpaler]

Me and my brewing buddy are currently sparging this as we speak. We had his fiance go pick up the grains from the LHBS and they forgot the Lactose so we're brewing this batch without it. It's very tasty so far, I can't wait to try it!

So should I use coarse ground coffee beans or just whole beans?

 

[plazola86]

I've never done whole bean but it just makes more since to grind since that will give more contact space to extract more flavor. You could always add the lactose after fermentation or in the keg before filling.

 

[VladTheImpaler]

I've never done whole bean but it just makes more since to grind since that will give more contact space to extract more flavor. You could always add the lactose after fermentation or in the keg before filling.

Brewed this up yesterday and all went fairly well. We missed out OG a little bit, it was supposed to be 1.085 per Beersmith and I ended up at 1.079... I think I sparged too fast.

Regardless, I think I'm gonna do a taste once primary fermentation is down and at that point decide whether or not to add the lactose or not. I heard the stuff is pretty hard to get to dissolve, any tips??

 

[plazola86]

Was the O.G on beer smith including the lactose? Maybe that's why you were a little off, I couple points wont make much of a difference other than a little less alcohol. As far as lactose just boil some water and stir the lactose in, stir until all the clumps are gone, cool and pitch it into the bottling bucket or keg then rack your beer on top. Or you could add half when you add your coffee, taste before you bottle or keg and decide if it needs more.

 

[VladTheImpaler]

Was the O.G on beer smith including the lactose? Maybe that's why you were a little off, I couple points wont make much of a difference other than a little less alcohol. As far as lactose just boil some water and stir the lactose in, stir until all the clumps are gone, cool and pitch it into the bottling bucket or keg then rack your beer on top. Or you could add half when you add your coffee, taste before you bottle or keg and decide if it needs more.

It was supposed to be 1.097 w/ lactose and 1.085 without. I removed it from Beersmith when I realized we didn't have it.

I think I'll taste it, and go from there with whether or not I need to add it.

 

[rokdok95]

How about an update on how these brews turned out? I'm definitively going to try this but have been reluctant b/c I haven't found anyone who said their recipe was a winner!

 

[cladinshadows]

How about an update on how these brews turned out? I'm definitively going to try this but have been reluctant b/c I haven't found anyone who said their recipe was a winner!

Yeah! Let's hear some results!

Please report back with what you did and how it turned out.

Yeah, that's right. I'm quoting myself.

 

[VladTheImpaler]

This actually turned out great! Sorry for the late response!

It was a little on the sweet side, so I would try to tweak it for a little more bitterness but it was awesome!