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Going from Primary to Secondary with 1 carboy?

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lorne17

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hello there,

So I brewed my first batch this weekend and I have 1 glass carboy and 1 6 gallon fermenting bucket.

I put my primary in the carboy and was planning on putting the wort in my bucket clean the carboy then put it back in carboy to get rid of sediment for secondary time.

Will this add too much oxygen to my batch? What steps do you recommend I take? Should I use the bucket for future primary times? I would have, but the bucket leaks and asked the seller for a new one, they didn't drill the spigot well and it leaks slowly, so I didn't want to use it.

Thanks,
Lorne
 

unionrdr

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If you tighten the spigot too much,it squeezes the seals out of place & it'll leak just like if it was a bit loose. You have to get used to how tight is just right with spigot seals.
 

freisste

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Preferably you would have an undrilled bucket for primary. Shouldn't be that big of a deal though.

If you take some care, you should be able to rack from your carboy to your bottling bucket (the drilled bucket) leaving most of the sediment behind. Bottle from there (ie, don't secondary).

If you are worried about excess sediment, you can rack to your bucket, clean your carboy, as rack back to the carboy. Just make sure you don't splash at all and it should be fine. Lay the hose from your racking cane so it is flat against the bottom of the bucket so you don't allow it to drop at all to minimize splashing.

Just make sure everything is nice and clean. I would be more worried about infection than oxidation.

And make sure it sits for a while after you return it to the carboy. If you don't let it settle for a while, you aren't gaining anything over option 1 I described above.

You could also cold crash or use gelatin to get it clearer after returning to the carboy.
 

Golddiggie

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Just forget about moving the beer to the second vessel. Just let it sit in primary until it's done and ready to be bottled. With every transfer you do, you open up the beer (it's beer once you pitch the yeast, NOT wort) to contamination, infection, oxidization and other bad things. IMO/IME, simply NOT worth doing. I'll transfer (with a CO2 push) when I'll be aging a batch for an extended period. Otherwise, it stays in primary until it goes to serving keg (or bottling bucket if you bottle).
 

freisste

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Just reread my post and realized there was very little emphasis on my option 1 (careful racking to leave sediment behind). This would be my suggestion, same as the others have said.
 
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lorne17

lorne17

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Thanks for the feedback guys. Quick replies!

I've heard if you leave it be with the sediment on the bottle it will get a lot of added and unwanted flavors. Is this not accurate?

The extract recipe calls for it to sit for a couple weeks and bottle after 2 weeks with priming sugar.

I can leave it be, right now I had to use a blowoff tube cuz my fermenting bubbler was full of foam, hissing, and not working at all. when I took it off, there was a big splash and blowout from the carboy. So I am now using a blowoff tube (I sanitized it) in a bucket with sanitized water solution.

Thanks,
Lorne
 

unionrdr

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The sediment in the bottles won't cause off flavors if you pour the clear beer carefully off the compacted yeast trub in the bottom of the bottle.
 

Golddiggie

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Thanks for the feedback guys. Quick replies!

I've heard if you leave it be with the sediment on the bottle it will get a lot of added and unwanted flavors. Is this not accurate?

The extract recipe calls for it to sit for a couple weeks and bottle after 2 weeks with priming sugar.

I can leave it be, right now I had to use a blowoff tube cuz my fermenting bubbler was full of foam, hissing, and not working at all. when I took it off, there was a big splash and blowout from the carboy. So I am now using a blowoff tube (I sanitized it) in a bucket with sanitized water solution.

Thanks,
Lorne
Kits are notorious for providing either outdated, or just plain wrong, information to new brewers.

Let it sit until it's ready to be bottled. After 2-3 weeks, pull a sample, test it with the hydrometer and then taste it (do NOT pour it back into the vessel). If you detect any off flavors, chances are those will go away with more time. There are only a couple of off flavors that cannot be fixed with more time (in primary especially).

For bottling, use a priming sugar calculator and then let it got at least 3 weeks at 70F. After that, chill it in the fridge for a week before you go to pour into a room temp glass.
 

HopSong

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Another thought.. you didn't say what size your carboy is. You don't want to rack less than a full bottle of beer into a secondary unless it is really full.. you will have too much headspace. Headspace contains oxygen.. oxygen causes off flavors if not totally destroying the beer... IMO. If it's a 5g carboy, you are probably ok.. but it's something you should consider. If you have, say, 5.5 gallons of beer in the primary and rack off 5 g into the 5 g carboy.. you should be safe.

Else, consider what others have said and don't do a secondary. Of course, if you have a bottle of CO2 laying around, you can fill the headspace with that and you are golden :D
 
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lorne17

lorne17

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Thanks for the feedback guys.

I forgot to reply to the spigot, it leaks because when they drilled it the bucket chipped a bit so there's not a flat surface for it to seal.

My Carboy is 5 gallons. There is not a ton of head space. See image attached. This was last night when I cleaned the bubbler and this morning it was way worse so I wen to a blow off tube. Should I switch to bubbler again after a few days and the off gas slows down? Or just keep the blowout tube for the next 2 weeks?

I plan to boil the .5 lb of priming sugar in 16oz water then pour into the bucket and syphon from carboy into bucket when I bottle after 2-3 weeks. Then I'll leave in bottle for 2-3 weeks as you recommended Golddiggie.

photo.jpg
 
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lorne17

lorne17

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Oops I mean 5oz. My mistake, haha, what a rookie I am!
 

Golddiggie

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Use the priming calculators. Otherwise you'll be posting about either over carbonated bottle, gushers, or bottle bombs. Very rarely is the 5oz of priming sugar the correct amount to use.
 
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lorne17

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oh, good to know. Where do I find priming calculators?

This is my recipe I am using: http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/beerkits/NutBrown.pdf

So it calls for 2/3 cups priming sugar, which is 5.03 ounces. So what would you recommend? I know this is off topic so I can start a new one if needbe?

One of the reviews said they added 5oz of brown sugar too.
 

kh54s10

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Since you are already looking at Northern Brewer: http://www.northernbrewer.com/priming-sugar-calculator/

I suggest you get another fermenter. A bucket intended for fermentation which is 7.5 gallons (I think) or a 6 gallon Better Bottle or my last choice (because they are dangerous) a 6.5 gallon glass carboy. Or, if you have lotsa $$ you could go stainless steel.
 

kh54s10

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Since you are already looking at Northern Brewer: http://www.northernbrewer.com/priming-sugar-calculator/

I suggest you get another fermenter. A bucket intended for fermentation which is 7.5 gallons (I think) or a 6 gallon Better Bottle or my last choice (because they are dangerous) a 6.5 gallon glass carboy. Or, if you have lotsa $$ you could go stainless steel.
 
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lorne17

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So if I get this: http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/the-brew-hauler.html is the glass carboy as dangerous? I don't put my wort in it until it's about 75-78 degrees F. I also have a large Jason's Deli Food bucket that is food safe and is over 5 gallons, so that could be my fermenting bucket? Or I could use the one with the spigot as soon as I get it replaced from it leaking, if I used that all I need to do is seal it and add the bubbler for the fermenting process, right?

Would you recommend I move into the carboy after a week or so to get it out of the sediment? I was told by fellow brewers that glass carboys are far superior because glass is not porous and over time will not allow bacteria into the container. Porous plastic can collect bacteria and also each time it's cleaned it can scratch it to create more pores. Was I informed incorrectly?
 

freisste

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Glass is better for sanitation, but worse because it is heavier, more slippery when wet, and can shatter. Plastic will break if you drop it, but won't kill you (unless you drop iron your own head...).

Don't use that brew hauler (handle for the neck) if it is full.
 
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lorne17

lorne17

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No I don't want to use the one that is the handle for the neck, I don't see how that can hold that much weight. I am wanting to get the canvas straps that wrap the carboy and provides two big handles on each side. That's wehre the link goes to.

Does anyone not recommend these straps? I think it's safe bet to use.

http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/the-brew-hauler.html
 

barrooze

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There's a couple options for "dropping" the trub at the bottom of a carboy if you can't let the beer stay in primary for the full fermentation. One option is using a Carboy Cap on your carboy. During primary fermentation, prop your carboy at an angle using a phonebook or something so all the trub gets collected in a corner of your carboy. When you want to "drop" your yeast, put your sanitized racking cane through the Carboy Cap, all the way to the bottom of the carboy, where all the trub is collected. Put some tubing on the top end of your racking cane to siphon the trub out of the carboy. When the cane's at the bottom, blow into the other tube on the Carboy Cap to pressurize the vessel, forcing out the trub at the bottom of the vessel. Note: this method WILL introduce some oxygen into your fermenting vessel.

Another option is to use this crazy doo-hickey: http://fermentap.com/view_product/16662/100574 . I've heard no good reviews from people who've used it, but if you want to get your hands on one, I can sell you the one I was gifted and never used!
 

Golddiggie

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5oz is pretty close to the amount needed for 2.3-2.5 volumes of co2. Here's the calculator I use; http://www.tastybrew.com/calculators/priming.html
Depends on the temperatures the brew is at/finishes at... Plus, with the OP having less than 5 gallons to bottle, 5oz could quickly become far too much priming sugar. Without knowing what he's made, it could also be too much for the style/recipe.
 

unionrdr

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Depends on the temperatures the brew is at/finishes at... Plus, with the OP having less than 5 gallons to bottle, 5oz could quickly become far too much priming sugar. Without knowing what he's made, it could also be too much for the style/recipe.
My batch of pm pale needed 4.3oz at 71.6 for the light lager,which is the same as an APA @ 2.3-2.5 VCO2. So 5oz was close,but a bit high. This turned out to be a first try (albeit a happy accident) at an ale that thinks it's a light lager. His recipe calling for 5.3oz seemed a bit high to me.
 

Golddiggie

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My batch of pm pale needed 4.3oz at 71.6 for the light lager,which is the same as an APA @ 2.3-2.5 VCO2. So 5oz was close,but a bit high. This turned out to be a first try (albeit a happy accident) at an ale that thinks it's a light lager. His recipe calling for 5.3oz seemed a bit high to me.
IME, brown ales are often better with lower CO2 volumes. I would aim for the lower half of the range, at the most.
 
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lorne17

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So is mine an American Brown Ale?

If so, and if my beer is at 62F (I think that's what it's currently at). Then I need .55 cups.

That sound about right?
 

Golddiggie

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So is mine an American Brown Ale?

If so, and if my beer is at 62F (I think that's what it's currently at). Then I need .55 cups.

That sound about right?
Weigh your priming sugar. Volume measurements are too inaccurate for use in this. Especially when you consider the consequences of using too much. Depending on the sugar used it could weight more, or less, than you need for the CO2 volumes level desired.

You can get a really good, digital, scale these days for cheap money.
 

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