Gnaring my belgian

[Thor the Mighty]

i have a belgian tripel going (thinking of making it a quad) and i noticed that although ive made it go through the other fermentations, there is a relitively high amount of sugar left in the gravity tests. if i pitched a little bit of champagne yeast (just happen to have some laying around) would that help at all?

 

[EvilTOJ]

Short answer; yes.

Long answer; yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees.

What's your OG and SG, and what yeast are you using right now? I ended up using champagne yeast on my RIS because it wasn't dropping past 1.030.

 

[AnOldUR]

Will Red Star Montrachet dry wine yeast work for this?
(Left over from Apfelwein)

 

[EvilTOJ]

I don't know 100% if it will work since I've never used montrachet in beer, but I don't see why not.

 

[AnOldUR]

Did some browsing and found this chart. I have a pack of Danstar Nottingham that has a higher alcohol tolerance. Do you think that this would be better suited?

 

[z987k]

i have a belgian triple going (thinking of making it a quad) and i noticed that although ive made it go through the other fermentations, there is a relitively high amount of sugar left in the gravity tests. if i pitched a little bit of champagne yeast (just happen to have some laying around) would that help at all?

I don't understand how you go from a triple to a quad post mash. They're two different styles, typically with a big color difference, gravity, spice and flavor differences.

 

[srm775]

I don't understand how you go from a triple to a quad post mash. They're two different styles, typically with a big color difference, gravity, spice and flavor differences.

Technically, there is no such thing as a quad ... but if he went from a trippel to a golden strong, there wouldn't be that much of a leap.

Post mash, I think the best way to go more to a golden strong (quad) would be to add several lbs. of fruit to a secondary and let it kick off again.

By the way, beano might be worth a try. Since belgians trippels/strongs are fairly dry and light in body, it might not be a bad thing. Besides, a champaign yeast would do just about the same thing.

 

[Thor the Mighty]

of course there is such thing as quads. what is rochefort 10 and abt 12? quads.

og was 1.086, and its at appx 1.040 right now. original yeast was Wyeast #1762 Belgian Abbey II. High gravity yeast with distinct warming character from ethanol production. Slightly fruity with dry finish. Flocculation: medium. Apparent attenuation: 73-77%. Optimum temperature: 65-75.

northern brewer made it. the champagne yeast i have is wlp715 white labs champ yeast.

 

[z987k]

Technically, there is no such thing as a quad ... but if he went from a trippel to a golden strong, there wouldn't be that much of a leap.

Post mash, I think the best way to go more to a golden strong (quad) would be to add several lbs. of fruit to a secondary and let it kick off again.

By the way, beano might be worth a try. Since belgians trippels/strongs are fairly dry and light in body, it might not be a bad thing. Besides, a champaign yeast would do just about the same thing.

while it may not be in the "official" style guidelines, I don't think doubles and triples are either. They're just listed under Belgian Golden or Strong Ale.

Every quad I've ever had has been a deep rich mahogany in color, really up there in abv, had some kind of candy sugar and dark fruit flavor. Triples don't really get all to close to that.

 

[Brewtopia]

Originally posted by srm775
Technically, there is no such thing as a quad

The trappist brewers at the Abbey Koningshoeven would beg to differ. Makers of the wonderful LaTrappe Quadrupel.

 

[McKBrew]

I have this bad boy in my beer cellar (aka closet).

 

[srm775]

of course there is such thing as quads. what is rochefort 10 and abt 12? quads.

BJCP Style guidelines. There is not "official" style for a quad. I'm certainly not saying that they don't exist, just that since their is no "official" style guide for it, whatever the OP does, isn't necessarily wrong.

The trappist brewers at the Abbey Koningshoeven would beg to differ. Makers of the wonderful LaTrappe Quadrupel.

See posting and link above ...

 

[DeathBrewer]

quad can be anything in between a triple or a dark strong ale. like many belgian beers, the style range is pretty wide. not an official style and more of a marketing thing, but oh well...run with it.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Nice post of the old school La Trappe Label! I liked that one a lot better than the new Koenigshoeven Label.

[EDIT] Sorry Thor, I fixated on the label (oooo shiney object)... +1 on raising the temps and giving it a strong kick in the nungrundle to shake up the yeast.

 

[z987k]

I have this bad boy in my beer cellar (aka closet).

A bar here in town has Alagash Triple and Double on tap most of the time. I love it.

BJCP Style guidelines. There is not "official" style for a quad. I'm certainly not saying that they don't exist, just that since their is no "official" style guide for it, whatever the OP does, isn't necessarily wrong.

if you're going by BJCP guidelines, I'd say the quad is simply the Strong Dark ale. If you look at the differences between a triple and strong dark, there is really nothing relating them except high gravity and Belgian(or is that the same thing:rockin

 

[Thor the Mighty]

thats cool and all but can someone answer my question? thanks.

 

[z987k]

champaign yeast should drop the gravity some, maybe throw in some yeast nutrient with it. Personally I'd try shaking up the fermenter and trying to get some yeast roused up in there or something before I pitched champaign yeast. I know they use it sometimes for bottle conditioning, but I'm not sure it'll give you the characteristics your looking for.

There was a thread on using champaign yeast exclusively just like a week ago. Also you could look into Bier de Champagne.
thread - using champaign yeast: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=63996


Personally I'm scared to death of putting beno in my beer for fear it ferments out to like .990

Also the reason we went on a bit of a tangent is because you mentioned making a triple a quad, which, post mash is really impossible.

 

[srm775]

if you're going by BJCP guidelines, I'd say the quad is simply the Strong Dark ale. If you look at the differences between a triple and strong dark, there is really nothing relating them except high gravity and Belgian(or is that the same thing:rockin

No, but the jump from trippel to golden strong isn't that much different besides higher gravities.

champaign yeast should drop the gravity some, maybe throw in some yeast nutrient with it. Personally I'd try shaking up the fermenter and trying to get some yeast roused up in there or something before I pitched champaign yeast. I know they use it sometimes for bottle conditioning, but I'm not sure it'll give you the characteristics your looking for.

I'd say shaking the fermentor and raising the temp should help. At the very least, those shouldn't change the flavor profile of the beer. Personally, I've never had much success dropping the FG on a beer with champaign yeast. I just think that in situations like that, the additional yeast has so little oxygen and nutrients to work with that it just doesn't take off.

Personally I'm scared to death of putting beno in my beer for fear it ferments out to like .990

Haven't used it either, but I think if you're really in a pickle, then it's probably the best method. Like I said, I've never been successful using champaign yeast. If fermenting too low is a concern, then I would just check it often until it gets to the target FG and rack to a new vessel and cold condition for a long period.

 

[z987k]

agree and and yeah I can't believe no one mentioned raising the temp. The temps should really be in the high 70s or low 80s for a Belgian strain anyways. I bet anything that's his problem.

 

[Thor the Mighty]

thanks for all the help guys.

 

[AnOldUR]

z987k wrote:
The temps should really be in the high 70s or low 80s for a Belgian strain anyways. I bet anything that's his problem.

For a Belgian Tripel Wyeast recommends:

YEAST STRAIN: 3787 | Trappist High Gravity™
Flocculation: Medium-High
Attenuation: 74-78%
Temperature Range: 64-78F, 18-25C
Alcohol Tolerance: 12% ABV

The highest temp for a tripel I found was with this yeast:

YEAST STRAIN: 3522 | Belgian Ardennes™
Flocculation: high
Attenuation: 72-76%
Temperature Range: 65-85° F (18-29° C)
Alcohol Tolerance: approximately 12% ABV

Either way, the yeast should tolerate room temperatures (68-72) just fine, although phenolics at higher temps will influence the profile.

 

[z987k]

I'm pretty sure a lot of the Belgians have hard time attenuating out fully if they're on the lower end of that range though.

 

[TexLaw]

BJCP Style guidelines. There is not "official" style for a quad. I'm certainly not saying that they don't exist, just that since their is no "official" style guide for it, whatever the OP does, isn't necessarily wrong.

Folks, just to put this one to rest real quick, the BJCP guidelines aren't official for anything beyond a BJCP sanctioned homebrew competition. They are not comprehensive, nor do they claim to be (i.e., check out the style description for Specialty).

The BJCP is not proactive in defining styles, either. It does not attempt to define or even refine a style that has matured historically, commercially, or in competitions. Rather, the BJCP attempts to define some historical styles and also reacts to newer styles developed primarily by commercial brewers. That's it. There are many styles in the world, some old and some new, that are not listed in the BJCP guidelines and may never be.


TL

 

[DUCCCC]

Would someone define "Gnaring" for me? I couldn't find a definition on Google...

 

[Danek]

For a Belgian Tripel Wyeast recommends:

The highest temp for a tripel I found was with this yeast:

Either way, the yeast should tolerate room temperatures (68-72) just fine, although phenolics at higher temps will influence the profile.

I've just been reading "Brew Like A Monk", and for the bigger Belgian beers it seems not uncommon to start the fermentation at a low temperature, and allow it to rise into the 80s towards the end. Can't remember which yeast it was though.

 

[srm775]

Either way, the yeast should tolerate room temperatures (68-72) just fine, although phenolics at higher temps will influence the profile.

Tolerate and thrive are two different things. A lager yeast will tolerate warmer ale temperatures, but won't do what it's necessarily supposed to do. I allow all of my belgians to creep up in temperatures certainly into the high 70's and even low 80's.

Phenolics aren't really a problem, because you kind of looking for those belgian phenolic flavors in your beers.

 

[jdoiv]

Try raising the temp. It that doesn't do the trick make a starter using any clean fermenting yeast and pitch it into the fermenter when it's at high krausen.

Yeast don't do well starting up fermentation if there is already a decent amount of alcohol present. They just figure all food is gone and keep on sleeping. By pitching at high krausen, they are already active and ready to eat.

edit: Gnar on!

 

[DeathBrewer]

Tolerate and thrive are two different things. A lager yeast will tolerate warmer ale temperatures, but won't do what it's necessarily supposed to do. I allow all of my belgians to creep up in temperatures certainly into the high 70's and even low 80's.

Phenolics aren't really a problem, because you kind of looking for those belgian phenolic flavors in your beers.

phenolics aren't the problem...fusel alcohols are. i don't like my beers to be hot and give me a splitting headache the next day.

that's why many brewers start at a low temperature and slowly build it up...you get the esters and a bit of the fusel, but it's subdued and the beer can still reach its optimal attenuation. to ferment the entire thing in the high 70s would make it unbearable.

some peolple add their extract and/or sugars during the end of the initial fermentation to keep the yeasties happy and going.

belgian beers take some care...they love to go dormant with not only low temperatures but with drastic changes in temp. they sometimes need to be roused a bit, too.

definitely a beer that requires some patience. but well worth it

 

[Thor the Mighty]

ok i just pitched about 1/4 a vile of white labs champagne yeast, and stired the entire carboy to activate everything again. woot.

 

[Poobah58]

Why would anyone want to put champagne yeast in a tripel? The humanity of it all! I don't know your recipe or the temps you mashed at or how much yeast you pitched or what your fermentation temps were but your beer may be finished. Did you gently swirl the fermenter several times a day to keep the yeast in suspension and active? Your yeast may be simply stuck also. At the very least why not re-pitch the same yeast that you started with?