GFCI vs. LCDI

[AnOldUR]

Bought a cord from a HBT member that was sold as a GFCI. Pulled mine apart and started wiring it into my HLT only to discover that there was no monitoring of the ground wire. Looked a little closer and found out it was a LCDI (Leakage Current Detection and Interruption), not a GFCI. You can see from the attached picture that the ground wire passes through the housing. The LCDI connects to a mesh shield around the long part of the cord, but never contacts the ground. From what I can find, these are made for fire protection and will not protect you from shock the way a GFCI will.

Anyone have any insight?

Leak-current detection and interruption (LCDI) plugs

Because portable air conditioners have caused many electrical fires, those sold in the United States now must have leak-current detection and interruption (LCDI) plugs. The cords have a fine wire mesh around the conductors and circuitry to detect any current leaking from the conductors to the mesh, which would happen if the cord were damaged or frayed. These could be NEMA 5–15, 5–20, 6–15, 6–20 or 6–30 plugs, depending on the air conditioner. The plug is equipped with “Test” and “Reset” buttons on the housing.

 

[petey_c]

A GFCI doesn't monitor the ground either. It compares the current on the hot and the neutral. This might help.
http://ul.com/global/documents/corp...wsletters/electricalconnections/january09.pdf

 

[AnOldUR]

This cord is a 240V 3-wire LCDI. There is no neutral. I think that in a 3-wire 240V GFCI the current in the two legs is checked for any difference, but I don't know if it uses the ground to do this.

Regardless, it doesn't look like LCDI offers the same type of protection as GFCI. Seems like one is for fire protection the other is for personal protection. Although I have not been able to find out what the actual difference is.

 

[P-J]

This cord is a 240V 3-wire LCDI. There is no neutral. I think that in a 3-wire 240V GFCI the current in the two legs is checked for any difference, but I don't know if it uses the ground to do this.

Regardless, it doesn't look like LCDI offers the same type of protection as GFCI. Seems like one is for fire protection the other is for personal protection. Although I have not been able to find out what the actual difference is.

You are absolutely correct. The LCDI monitors the cable wire shield for any leakage. The intent is for fire protection only. It will not and does not function as a GFCI component.

You must (for your personal safety - BTW, your life depend on this) provide GFCI protection for your brewery. (As a side note: This is also a requirement according to current code. You brewery is a 'wet' area and GFCI protection must be in place for your safety.)

Sorry, I didn't mean to get all carried away. In my own defense though, the point needed to be made for everyone to see.

Good job on spotting the issue and posting the concern. You did great!!!

Thanks,
P-J

 

[P-J]

Just had a light bulb moment. The E-Stop circuit that I draw in most all of my diagrams would have pointed out the problem in an instant. Now I rest my case on a true E-Stop.

Others "E-Stop" does not test this in any way, shape or form.

 

[AnOldUR]

P-J, thanks for confirming my fears. There was plenty of web information about what the LCDI did, but little about what it would not do. Started this thread looking for information from someone with creditability. It was good to hear from you.

I was mid installation when I found the problem. I had started wiring to the immersion heater in my HLT and hacked the plug off the end with the plan of changing it to a 6-20P. It’ll be interesting to see if the seller will make good on his mistake and give refunds.

The worst part is that he sold several of these as GFCI, so there may be brewers out there thinking that they are protected when they are not. I’d like to think that it was just an honest mistake on his part. He should, at the very least, contact the people that bought them.

 

[petey_c]

AnOldUR, You may not be so successful, since you cut the plug off.

 

[AnOldUR]

To follow up, I contacted the manufacturer.

Sirs
I recently purchased a Tower LCDI (cat. no. 30364-0) cord. I know that LCDI's are made for fire protection, but will this cord offer the same type of personal protection as a GFCI when used in a kitchen like setting?
Thank-you.

Dear Mr Richards
An LCDI is not intended for personal protection the way a GFCI is. LCDIs monitor only the cord integrity and these devices are UL mandated for use with certain types of air conditioners.
Tower Mfg. Corp.

 

[AnOldUR]

AnOldUR, You may not be so successful, since you cut the plug off.

Glad to say you are wrong. The seller, HBT member Yevmeister, is making good on this. Great guy. It would have been easy to just ignored the problem, but he stepped up and went above and beyond even though I cut mine up.

 

[petey_c]

That's good to hear. Many places would seized the opportunity to screw you out of your cash.

 

[P-J]

AnOldUR,

Thank you so much for your follow up on the issue. I'm very pleased that the vendor did the right thing. He has earned 'Honors' as a proper vendor.

I'm also delighted that you caught it and posted the concern. It is far better than playing the game "You Bet Your Life".

Good job.

P-J