GFCI location

[summerofgeorge]

I used to brew in my garage and had 50A breaker --> 50A outlet --> 50A GFCI (spa panel) --> control panel (there was a decent distance between the 50A outlet and my brewing area). I'm moving my setup to my basement and I'm trying to figure out the best way to wire the GFCI. Currently, there's a sub-panel in the basement with a 50A breaker for the brewery. The wiring from the sub-panel goes about 35 feet to my brewing area (right now there's no outlet, just terminates in a junction box). The junction box is on the wall right behind where I would be brewing. If I used the same setup as the garage but now the 50A outlet is in the direct brewing area (ie. the splash zone), would this be a problem since that outlet isn't GFCI protected? Similarly, could I hard-wire the spa panel in this location, given that I installed an outlet into the side of it? Not sure if this would be up to code if it was permanently installed. I could also just put a 50A GFCI breaker in the sub-panel as long as the distance isn't an issue.

So to summarize, here are the options I'm thinking about:
1 - 50A outlet in brewing area to plug spa panel into (same as garage)
2 - directly wire spa panel in brewing area
3 - replace 50A breaker in sub-panel with 50A GFCI breaker (this might be the cleanest approach but also most expensive since I already have the other stuff)

 

[doug293cz]

I believe the cleanest installation is putting a GFCI breaker in the main service panel. Distance from the GFCI to the load shouldn't matter. The exception would be if you have a sub-panel that has it's own grounding rod, in which case you'd want the GFCI in the sub-panel. A spa panel is a form of sub-panel (which does not have it's own grounding rod.) Second best would be the GFCI located away from any potential wet areas. Near the load still provides a lot of protection, there is just no protection upstream of the GFCI.

Brew on

 

[FloppyKnockers]

What Doug said.

 

[summerofgeorge]

Are you suggesting just putting the 50A gfci breaker in the main panel and not using the sub-panel? I won't be able to find a breaker for my main panel that's not ridiculously expensive. The sub-panel is also in the basement near where I'll be brewing but the main panel is in the garage.

Here's a picture of the 100A sub-panel:

Is it possible to just swap out the 50A breaker with a 50A gfci here? After I originally posted, I also thought another option would be to just move the junction box that's in the brewing area away from all water. I didn't really want to have to rip the wire out of the wall though, at least not at this point since I'm just trying to get up and running on a temporary basis until I have the time to do what I really want.

 

[doug293cz]

You could put the GFCI breaker in the sub-panel.

Brew on

 

[OneInTheHand]

What brand is the spa panel? You may be able to just take the breaker out of the spa panel and put it in the sub-panel. Otherwise like doug said it would be cleanest to put a new GFCI breaker in the sub-panel. looks like a Square-D QO. 50 amp gfci for that is $160 at home depot.

It may make sense to put the 50 amp spa panel down stream of the existing junction box if you wanted to use that line for non-brewing applications. For example, maybe the receptacle is near a window and you want to run an extension cord to go outside to a welder.

 

[summerofgeorge]

I have GE and Midwest panels. I have no plans to run anything else off of this breaker so GFCI breaker in the panel seems like the best way to go. Thanks!

 

[summerofgeorge]

I see that Square D has 3 versions of the 50A GFCI breaker. Will all of these work?

QO250GFICP Mini circuit breaker, QO, 50A, 2 pole, 120/240VAC, 10kA, 6mA grd fault A, pigtail, plug in mount, consumer pack
QO250GFIC Mini circuit breaker, QO, 50A, 2 pole, 120/240VAC, 10kA, 6mA grd fault A, pigtail, plug in mount, clam pack
QO250GFI Mini circuit breaker, QO, 50A, 2 pole, 120/240VAC, 10kA, 6mA grd fault A, pigtail, plug in mount

Is the only difference the packaging? I didn't notice any other differences in the descriptions.

 

[T Murph]

I'm not an electrician but I have some experience working with breakers etc. I'm not sure Square D and GE / Midwest are compatable. I agree with @OneInTheHand to simply install a new compatable GFCI in the main panel. That way everything down line is GFCI protected.

 

[InspectorJon]

Go to the panel manufacturer's website and find the panel you want to install the new circuit breaker in. They will have a list of approved brands and configuration of circuit breakers that can be used in the panel. That way you will have a "listed" application. Listed means it has been tested in a laboratory under high stress conditions and we know it will work safely.

You might get a breaker that is not listed for that panel to connect and work but it cannot really be considered a safe and dependable installation. According to building code, all electrical and most other mechanical installations are required to be "listed assemblies". Listed assembly means all the parts are made specifically to work together and have been tested for that application in a laboratory. One might put things together in an unlisted assembly and get them to do the job you want. That does not mean the assembly is unsafe, it means it is untested. Your home now becomes the testing laboratory. Some people have a higher tolerance for risk than others.

Someone that is not an electrician who is trying to figure out and do this kind of thing has a higher tolerance for risk than most others. I am guilty of that myself so no judgment here, just trying to put things in perspective.

 

[doug293cz]

I see that Square D has 3 versions of the 50A GFCI breaker. Will all of these work?

QO250GFICP Mini circuit breaker, QO, 50A, 2 pole, 120/240VAC, 10kA, 6mA grd fault A, pigtail, plug in mount, consumer pack
QO250GFIC Mini circuit breaker, QO, 50A, 2 pole, 120/240VAC, 10kA, 6mA grd fault A, pigtail, plug in mount, clam pack
QO250GFI Mini circuit breaker, QO, 50A, 2 pole, 120/240VAC, 10kA, 6mA grd fault A, pigtail, plug in mount

Is the only difference the packaging? I didn't notice any other differences in the descriptions.

I'm pretty sure it's just difference in packaging.

Brew on

 

[summerofgeorge]

So I looked up my panel on the manufacturers website to verify that the breaker I was looking at can be used safely in my panel. I also confirmed with them that the 3 I was looking at are the same except for the packaging. Thanks for all of the advice and suggestions!