Getting the yeast OUT of my cider

[tallor242]

I've made a couple ~5g batches of Apfelwein-like cider, and I'm interested in figuring out how to make them taste less yeasty. For my first batch the taste was not overpowering, but it masked any apple taste. The second batch was absolutely dominated by a yeast taste and it drank more like beer to me. Here's the problem: I don't like beer. I want a cider that has apple character and very little yeast. I realize there's always going to be some yeast in suspension so it's impossible to eliminate it entirely, but I practically gagged when I drank it. In contrast, most of the beer drinkers I invited to help me drink it thought that it was good. I don't mind if it's dry, but pretty much everything is getting masked by the yeast.

Here are the details:
Cider 1 (Moderate yeast taste)
- OG around 1.060, FG 0.994
- ~5G Treetop, 2lb. corn sugar, Lavlin KC-1116 (I think?) in a 5G Better Bottle.
- Aged 6ish weeks, around 75 degree temp, looked pretty clear
- Moved better bottle ~50 feet to kitchen counter by hand, hydro sample taken from the top tasted great
- Using a racking cane, siphoned into a bottling bucket containing 5oz. corn sugar dissolved in a bit of water
- Bottled, opened bottles 3 weeks later

Cider 2 (STRONG yeast taste)
OG around 1.058, FG 0.996
~4.5G store-bought cider (no preservatives) Wyeast 3068 (Weihenstephan Weizen), 2lbs. corn sugar, 5G Better Bottle
- Aged about 3 months around 70 degree temp, original cider was not clear so hard to tell clearing-wise
- Moved better bottle ~50 feet to kitchen counter by hand, hydro sample taken from the top tasted a bit yeasty but okay
- Using a racking cane, siphoned into a bottling bucket containing 5oz. corn sugar dissolved in a bit of water
- Bottled, opened bottles 2 weeks later

Here are a couple of leading questions:
1. Does bottle conditioning contribute significantly to the amount of yeast taste?
2. Is there value in re-racking before bottling to eliminate yeast taste?
3. Any other pro tips?

 

[david_42]

Wyeast 3068 (Weihenstephan Weizen) is a really bad choice for a cider. It has low flocculation and will always leave a beverage cloudy & yeasty.

I recommend three things: use a high flocculation yeast, rack to a secondary after 4 weeks and bottle after another 2 months.

 

[Orangevango]

May I suggest lavalin ec-1118 it has a very clean flavor profile and it drops out nicely. It also gets the cider nice and dry.

 

[Evan!]

also, extended cold aging (as close to freezing as you can get) will help.

 

[Kauai_Kahuna]

I have used WLP300, and it did clear after around 2 months, but I also crash chilled it. I was actually hoping for some of the flavor to impart on the cider but it did not.
I am making a batch now with some stepped up PACMAN yeast, and I have used WLP001 as well as moncharat wine yeast.
There are some threads here where people have experimented with large numbers of different yeast types and made their recommendations.

 

[tallor242]

Yeah, I've heard about cold crashing to get the yeast to drop out. My problem is that my fridge won't really fit my 5 gallon Better Bottle.

I'll trying racking to secondary to see if I can kick some yeast out. Also, I'm still interested to hear people's input on my original question about conditioning.

 

[Ciderguy]

I'm interested in adding some thoughts. When racking the cider, i know that components of the cider itself settle. Even when you purchase a gallon of it at the store you have to shake it, otherwise stuff remains on the bottum. So is anything lost from the cider when it is racked?
I'm also wondering if removing as much yeast as possible will slow the priming in the bottles. how long do other people generally leave the bottles to sit? I have found that usually around 2-4 weeks will get a desired result, but i have also had a problem with eccess yeast in the brew, but i generally only ferment it for about 2-3 weeks and rack occasionaly.
Im usually not getting down to a FG reading that you seem to be shooting for. I usually start at around 1.091 and end at around 1.016 My recipe includes 5lbs sugar, 2lbs brown sugar, and 5 gallons of local fresh cider. i usually hit 10-11%. i think i used the lavalin ec118 in a few batches, and my personal findings were that yes, it had a less yeasty taste (maybe pretty significantly) but it created a much stronger wine "bite" that i didn't get from standard beer yeast

 

[flyweed]

Wyeast 3068 (Weihenstephan Weizen) is a really bad choice for a cider. It has low flocculation and will always leave a beverage cloudy & yeasty.

I have to disagree with this comment. I JUST kegged and carbed an apfelwein/cider I made that finished dry, clear and no noticable yeast taste with the Wyeast 3068.

I call this more of a cider, because after it fermented out fully to.098, I backsweetened with 2 cans of Apple Juice concentrate and 1/4 pound of wildflower honey. F.G. is now: 1.013....it is fizzy, semi-sweet and has a nice apple taste.

So I haven't had any problems with 3068 not clearing or tasting yeasty at all

Dan

 

[mysigp226]

I'm in the same boat with you tallor. I hate beer but love cider (as long as I can taste the fruit in it)

I've had the same problem with several of my batches and I _think_ I've been able to narrow it down to the type of yeast used.

My original 5g batch of cider used Lalvin 71B-1122 and came out what I thought was perfect. Very little to no yeast 'after taste'. 'after taste' is the best way I can figure out how to describe it.

I then used Red Star Champagne yeast and it nearly destroyed 3 of my batches (2 apple and one raspberry) utilizing _exactly_ (literally) the same recipe as my original batch but a different yeast and in one some raspberries. It wasn't an "off" taste like the batches had gone bad or sulfur or what not...it was that 'after taste' you seem to be describing. When I went back and tried a bottle of the original batch I could find that same taste waaaay back in the flavor profile but barely noticeable. That's why I think it was the yeast.

I have 2 more batches going with S-04 yeast to see if I can reproduce the 'clear' taste I'm looking for. If not..I'm going back to Lalvin 71B-1122 and never leaving.

 

[pulykamell]

Wyeast 3068 (Weihenstephan Weizen) is a really bad choice for a cider. It has low flocculation and will always leave a beverage cloudy & yeasty.

I disagree as well. This is one tasty yeast for the cider, and mine has cleared clean as a whistle in 2 months, and I haven't even gotten around to racking it to the secondary, even. I've been taking sips from it and this may end up being my favorite cider yeast.

 

[zoebisch01]

Time heals all sediment problems. I like my Cider over the year mark.

 

[pulykamell]

I disagree as well. This is one tasty yeast for the cider, and mine has cleared clean as a whistle in 2 months, and I haven't even gotten around to racking it to the secondary, even. I've been taking sips from it and this may end up being my favorite cider yeast.

I just wanted to return to this thread and report my experiences with the cider I made from the apples pressed from my friend's tree.

Of the yeasts I used, EC-1118, S-04, Nottingham, and the Weihenstephaner, the clear winner, after a year and a half or so, in terms of taste was the Weihenstephaner, followed by the S-04, Nottingham, and EC-1118. The EC-1118 has a weird, kind of butterscotch flavor that I did not like with the cider. The Weihenstephaner had a complimentary spiciness (cloves) and fruitiness that worked well with the beer, and, to my palate at any rate, seemed to retain just a touch more residual sweetness. I'm not sure it was in reality any less dry than the other ciders, but the flavors the yeast contributed made it seem so (I don't backsweeten my ciders.)

I haven't done cider since the 30 gallons or so I made in 2008, but this year I plan to make a few more batches, and I'm inclined to only use Wyeast 3068 and perhaps S-04. (The S-04 had a very clean flavor, too, also with hints of fruit/bubblegum.)

 

[BlackAle1]

I don't get it, do you let it sit on the yeast cake for a year??

 

[CvilleKevin]

3068 is great for cider. You might want to try the 3056 and 1010 wheat yeasts also. Those are my 3 favorites wheat yeasts so far. I've had good results with nearly all the Wyeast and WLP liquid wheat yeasts. Not so good results with the dry wheat yeasts. Most wheat yeasts also have the advantage of being relatively easy to cold crash if you want some residual sugar.

 

[pulykamell]

I don't get it, do you let it sit on the yeast cake for a year??

No, it had long been racked off the yeast cake into a secondary. (I can't remember how long it was in primary, somewhere between 4 to 6 weeks, I think.) I find that cider doesn't really hit its peak until after at least a year of aging.