Getting Repeatable Sparge Rate- tips/techniques/gear?

[micraftbeer]

I brew on a 3 vessel system most of the time. The problem I've been having lately is getting a consistent sparge rate/time when pumping from mash tun to boil kettle. And I get significant variation on mash efficiency, depending on that sparge rate.

I run the flow out of mash tun through a Riptide pump, and the inlet to my boil kettle has a ball valve that I adjust to get what I judge to be a suitable flow rate into the boil kettle.

I was wondering if any other 3 vessel brewers that fly sparge have developed any techniques to get a repeatable sparge time, or some gear they use? I was thinking of I could put a flow meter there, I could manually adjust the ball valve until I hit a target flow rate.

Anyone have something worth sharing? Also, I'm not interested in someone telling me to go BIAB or batch sparge. I'm specifically interested in fly sparge..

 

[jcav]

It is a little tricky controlling the flow. I have a 3 vessel e-herms and I do control the flow with Blichmann flow control valves here:

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/blichmannlinearflowtc.htm
They also have these if you do not have tri clamp:

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/blichmannlinearflow.htm
I can usually dial in the flow with these valves pretty close. I know people who swear by this device:

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/autosparge.htm
I have one but could not get it to work on my system but I know others who set it and it keeps a consistent amount of water on top of the grain bed while sparging and filling your boil kettle.

Hope this helps,

John

 

[Dland]

I recently did batch #165 with my 3V kettle rig, below is what I do now. If you think about what you are doing, and take notes if necessary ( I did this for the first few dozen runs) you can figure out what works well for you and the rig you have. There are variables, such as rig, how grist is milled and density of grist in recipe, that one sort of needs to figure out on ones own. Even if not running optimal efficiency, good chance one who is trying will make good beer. At least that's how it works with me. Anyway...;

My current practice is to gravity sparge water from HLT to MT. I put in about a gallon of sparge water(*) on top of grist in MT and then let gravity feed MT to BK, (through pump which is off for now), until at least a third of wort has gone into BK. At some point, depending on density of mash an how fast I want to go, I turn on pump with valve mostly closed and slowly pump rest of wort into BK. When pump begins to suck air from MT, put MT output hose in container to save last runnings to use add to BK later if more volume wanted.

If running gas, one can start to heat wort as soon as there is enough in BK not to scald, flame low. If electric, one can put on as soon a element is covered with liquid. This saves time, if one is inclined.

Picture is of rig in vorlauf (recirc) mode. If one wanted to go three tier, it all would work without a pump, but it usually takes somewhat longer.

(*) I believe this helps reduce channeling.

 

[Red over White]

I brew on a 3 vessel system most of the time. The problem I've been having lately is getting a consistent sparge rate/time when pumping from mash tun to boil kettle. And I get significant variation on mash efficiency, depending on that sparge rate.

I run the flow out of mash tun through a Riptide pump, and the inlet to my boil kettle has a ball valve that I adjust to get what I judge to be a suitable flow rate into the boil kettle.

I was wondering if any other 3 vessel brewers that fly sparge have developed any techniques to get a repeatable sparge time, or some gear they use? I was thinking of I could put a flow meter there, I could manually adjust the ball valve until I hit a target flow rate.

Anyone have something worth sharing? Also, I'm not interested in someone telling me to go BIAB or batch sparge. I'm specifically interested in fly sparge..

I use 2.5V and 3V with td5 pumps on each vessel depending on the batch size (all vessels are at the same height). I'm going to try and explain my ridiculous lodo system and in a nutshell at the end.

2.5V No Sparge Mode
I underlet the MLT from the BK through the CFC at the start of the mash and leave all the hoses in place. After mashout, I use the HLT to heat up the runoff from the MLT into the BK through the CFC in 2.5V mode (the runoff will go from 168 to 195-200 as it xfers by gravity on the way to the BK). When the MLT & BK vessels about equalize, I start the MLT pump to xfer slowly into the BK, but recirc some runoff back under the false bottom until the MLT liquid level is just above the false bottom. Then I wait 20 mins for the grain bed to slowly drain and heat exchange the balance at 100% pump speed into the BK for the full volume.

3V Fly Sparge Mode
In 3V fly sparge mode everything is exactly as above, except after the cooled HLT water leaves the CFC, some is diverted into the top of the MLT as sparge water, the balance goes back into the HLT to be reheated for recirculation. A measured amount of sparge water is run into the MLT and eventually the slow drain process begins.

This method saves heaps of time and reduces thermal stress on the wort, shortening ramp to the boil and overall hotside time.

TL;DR 2.5V heat exchange runoff to boil

TL;DR 3V heat exchange runoff to boil and use perfect temp effluent from CFC to sparge with

Despite my best effort this still sounds way more complicated than it really is.

 

[MicroMickey]

A slow lauter is the number one trick in coaxing the sugars out of the mashed grist. Close down the valve to the point of taking about 90 minutes or more to finish running the wort into the kettle. On a five gallon batch (probably about 6 1/4 gallons to the kettle), the stream of wort I run into the kettle is about the size of a ball point pen cartridge. This one little trick will boost your brewhouse efficiency a lot more than you might imagine! Sure it takes some time but so does everything else. If you're that pressed for time, go to the store and buy a 6-pack.

 

[Dland]

A slow lauter is the number one trick in coaxing the sugars out of the mashed grist. Close down the valve to the point of taking about 90 minutes or more to finish running the wort into the kettle. On a five gallon batch (probably about 6 1/4 gallons to the kettle), the stream of wort I run into the kettle is about the size of a ball point pen cartridge. This one little trick will boost your brewhouse efficiency a lot more than you might imagine! Sure it takes some time but so does everything else. If you're that pressed for time, go to the store and buy a 6-pack.

Not everyone has 3 hrs to do a sparge, which is what it would take me to do a regular 12 gal batch following your advice. How long is your brew day, how often do your brew?

Brew house efficiency is not everything. If one is brewing the beer they want to drink, and saving a couple hours by using a pound or two more grain, not a problem. I spent about 30 batches with efficency as one of primary goals, and it is a good thing learn how to do, and factors into how I brew every batch. But brewing the beer one wants to drink with out an excessve amount of time & effort is worth something too.

Have not bought beer for years. The beer I used to like to buy was not cheep, and is not as good to my taste what I'm brewing now. Even if it was good when packaged, always got it slightly stale/oxygenated before I could get it.

BTW, with my rig, I've found too slow a sparge can decrease efficiency, and leave sugars in the grist. It depends on mash density and gear used. Not sure why , but my guess if the flow is to slow, normal channeling may be more of a factor, and just leave sugars behind because no pressure to wash them out.

 

[Deadalus]

I use a float valve similar to the Blichmann Autosparge. The valve is slightly different than Blichmann's as it has an NPT threaded outlet. I have attached a female QD to that so I can swap out a recirculation manifold used during mashing with a rotating sparge arm. I have a ball valve on the whirlpool port of my BK that I crack just slightly to allow flow. I have a Riptide for my wort pump but I don't find its valve particularly adjustable.

The flow rate into the BK is generally set with a valve of some sort. If it is a ball valve, if you were looking to set it exactly each time, you could potentially use a protractor to gauge the angle on the handle that you are using. However, I find that at the small crack I open mine, the flow will at times change due to small bits building up requiring a readjustment. This leads to slight variations in flow.

 

[micraftbeer]

I use the Blichmann auto sparge float valve in my mash tun. It works great to keep the water level above above the grain and I don't have to babysit the sparge in flow.

@Red over White , I had to read your post a few times until it sunk in, but I think I get it now. The CDC reference kept throwing me off, as I only think of it as wort chilling. Pretty cool concept you've got.

I think maybe I'll just do like referenced above, and crack open the ball and focus on the diameter of the flow coming out, aiming for the "ballpoint pen" diameter.

Thanks.

 

[Red over White]

I use the Blichmann auto sparge float valve in my mash tun. It works great to keep the water level above above the grain and I don't have to babysit the sparge in flow.

@Red over White , I had to read your post a few times until it sunk in, but I think I get it now. The CDC reference kept throwing me off, as I only think of it as wort chilling. Pretty cool concept you've got.

I think maybe I'll just do like referenced above, and crack open the ball and focus on the diameter of the flow coming out, aiming for the "ballpoint pen" diameter.

Thanks.

Thanks, I have everything sitting right there I might as well get full use from it. I do try to minimize wort shear from the pump as much as I can by running some of wort back under the false bottom when xferring slowly to the BK.

 

[YeastFeast]

BTW, with my rig, I've found too slow a sparge can decrease efficiency, and leave sugars in the grist. It depends on mash density and gear used. Not sure why , but my guess if the flow is to slow, normal channeling may be more of a factor, and just leave sugars behind because no pressure to wash them out.

I was hoping to find these results, I had the same issue last brew! I slowed my sparge down quite a bit (compared to all my other batches) by restricting flow with a flow valve. My efficency was terrible compared to all my other brews on my newish system (8 brews so far). My target OG was 1.078 and my actual was 1.062! Could there be another factor like grain crush? Maybe... but I get all my grains crushed from the same local homebrew shop. Same equipment they've always had.

 

[Dland]

I was hoping to find these results, I had the same issue last brew! I slowed my sparge down quite a bit (compared to all my other batches) by restricting flow with a flow valve. My efficency was terrible compared to all my other brews on my newish system (8 brews so far). My target OG was 1.078 and my actual was 1.062! Could there be another factor like grain crush? Maybe... but I get all my grains crushed from the same local homebrew shop. Same equipment they've always had.

Seems to me that when I've let sparge go too much over an hour, extraction rate/efficiency goes down some. Just under an hour seems to be a sweet spot in my rig/system. That is for around a 9 gallon sparge on a 7 gallon strike / 18-20 pound grain mash.

No doubt the best sparge timing is variable with system, volume and consistency of mash. Efficiency one parameter to pay attention to when learning,, but is it is not as important as making beer that tastes good. In my opinion (which is mine [; )

Grain crush could also be a factor, you could verify your shop has not changed mill setting. If you get into brewing, at some point one usually wants to mill ones own grain for control of such.

 

[YeastFeast]

Seems to me that when I've let sparge go too much over an hour, extraction rate/efficiency goes down some. Just under an hour seems to be a sweet spot in my rig/system. That is for around a 9 gallon sparge on a 7 gallon strike / 18-20 pound grain mash.

No doubt the best sparge timing is variable with system, volume and consistency of mash. Efficiency one parameter to pay attention to when learning,, but is it is not as important as making beer that tastes good. In my opinion (which is mine [; )

Grain crush could also be a factor, you could verify your shop has not changed mill setting. If you get into brewing, at some point one usually wants to mill ones own grain for control of such.

What about mash pH? Can that have an effect on efficiency? I use RO water and adjust water from there. I noted on my last brew that my pH (checked after about 10 min into the mash) was at 5.3 @ room temp. I usually shoot for 5.4-5.6 at room temp. I added 3.5 ml of 88% lactic acid to a Hazy IPA recipe.

Milling my own grains is one of the few things I still don't do myself. Maybe I should.

 

[Dland]

There may be a correlation between pH and efficiency, but is not something I've ever looked into.

 

[YeastFeast]

There may be a correlation between pH and efficiency, but is not something I've ever looked into.

Yeah, I only bring it up because my OG was really low (based on software prediction) and my pH was unusually low. Again, I suppose it could be bad grain crush and/or super slow sparge?