German Pilsner finished dryer than expected. Why?

[nrjones89]

SG 1.048, FG 1.005. I was going to enter this into my first competition, but unfortunately it missed the mark on FG. I used Danstar Diamond yeast. I'm thinking it's either due to a long watery mash and a long boil, or its contaminated with wild yeast or something. I just kegged/lagered it last night, so I can't really tell what off flavors there are beyond the strong sulfur expected with the yeast strain. Could it be either? It finished fermenting in about 6 days.

 

[SoCal-Doug]

low mash temp? hellova attenuating yeast strain? recipe not calculated for high attenuation? contamination by another yeast or more sinister biological? errors in volumes, boil off rates, gravity measurements, yeast type, grist calculations? fermentation too warm and fast (50F to 55F and 5 to 7 days is typical for Diamond)? combination of two or more of the above?

Diamond is definitely a high attenuation yeast. If you are using beersmith, i've seen some not-so-accurate attenuation expectations in their profiles (BS3 shows it as a max 75% attenuation, I think its higher than that). A good example is WY3711. That stuff can ferment water and old gym socks, but BS tends to show it finishing around 1.010 to 1.013 when in reality we can expect 1.004 or a bit less.

As far as entering it... If it tastes good after lagering/aging, enter it! Judges don't measure gravity, but if it misses the taste, aroma, body, color, mouthfeel mark the style should have, you might lose a few points. You might do better than you thought.

 

[nrjones89]

Yeah, I tried to keep it around 152; I have one of those glass thermometers so it wasn't the most accurate. And it was a twoish hour mash. I couldn't really find specific details on Diamond's attenuation, other than 'high'.

 

[ccous]

The 2 hour mash is the reason for the attenuation. Temp doesn’t really matter with that mash length, gonna be hella dry.

But I agree you should enter it if it tastes good. Body does not depend on FG alone.

 

[Miraculix]

Hi l am German and I don't know what your judges think a German pilsener should taste like, but based on my own experience, everything from dry to bone dry with a fitting noble hop aroma and the correct number of ibus should do the job.

Have a jever, for example. Dry and higher ibu.

Good luck!

 

[Comfort_Zone]

That sounds fine. Have you tasted it? FG tells you nothing about how it will actually taste. As long as it tastes good just do it. At the very least it's a good way to very useful feedback.

 

[nrjones89]

It tastes terrible right now lol. Rubbery sulfury condom taste and smell.

 

[Andrew Hodgson]

It tastes terrible right now lol. Rubbery sulfury condom taste and smell.

That is the most unfortunate description of a beer

 

[nrjones89]

Hi l am German and I don't know what your judges think a German pilsener should taste like, but based on my own experience, everything from dry to bone dry with a fitting noble hop aroma and the correct number of ibus should do the job.

Have a jever, for example. Dry and higher ibu.

Good luck!

Thanks for the encouragement! I have not had Jever. I have had many a German pilsner, though! In the US I think a fine example would be Scrimshaw. We get Radeberger Pils here though. It is somewhat dry and hoppy with a mild sulfur aroma.

 

[Comfort_Zone]

Contamination is possible, though I think it may just need some time.

 

[Smellyglove]

The judges doesn't know the FG, it's about taste in comps.

 

[Miraculix]

Thanks for the encouragement! I have not had Jever. I have had many a German pilsner, though! In the US I think a fine example would be Scrimshaw. We get Radeberger Pils here though. It is somewhat dry and hoppy with a mild sulfur aroma.

Yes, dry and hoppy with mild sulfur pretty much nails it in general.

 

[nrjones89]

Tonight it is a bit more carbonated and the perceived dryness is even higher. The off flavors are greatly reduced, but after it goes flat, it kind of has a dirty sock smell. My girlfriend said it smells like baby spit, but I don't know what that smells like. Hopefully it clears up. The baby spit up comment concerned me, because that would mean it got contaminated! I don't think I smell butyric acid... I am pretty sensitive to that, especially in light/sour beers. I get a mild dirty sock or mildly fruity aroma. The taste is pretty neutral at this point.

 

[Jayjay1976]

I had a string of beers finish lower than expected. They would dry out further in the bottle and eventually almost every batch would end up as gushers. Took a long time to figure out I had a diastaticus infection caused by my very first batch, a saison fermented with 3711+3724. That s#it should come with a warning label. I kept adjusting my mash temps up and tweaking my recipes, but it was that dirty farmhouse strain. Now everything gets a thorough sponging with bleach water to eliminate biofilm before putting away and starsan before using again.

 

[rtstrider]

I had a string of beers finish lower than expected. They would dry out further in the bottle and eventually almost every batch would end up as gushers. Took a long time to figure out I had a diastaticus infection caused by my very first batch, a saison fermented with 3711+3724. That s#it should come with a warning label. I kept adjusting my mash temps up and tweaking my recipes, but it was that dirty farmhouse strain. Now everything gets a thorough sponging with bleach water to eliminate biofilm before putting away and starsan before using again.

You know...I've been fighting the same issues and it all started after using the Lallemand Belle Saison yeast exactly a year ago. Finally bleached the fermenter before this most recent "test" batch. Still have a good week or two at the very least before even thinking about bottling. Curious to see if bleaching, overnight oxiclean soak, starsan knocks that out.

 

[Jayjay1976]

You know...I've been fighting the same issues and it all started after using the Lallemand Belle Saison yeast exactly a year ago. Finally bleached the fermenter before this most recent "test" batch. Still have a good week or two at the very least before even thinking about bottling. Curious to see if bleaching, overnight oxiclean soak, starsan knocks that out.

Sounds like you have the same problem. One word of caution if you plan on using bleach, soaking black o-rings too long (several days in my case) will cause them to deteriorate. Don't know if the orange buna-n orings have the same issue but I ruined some of my fermonster o-rings this way.

 

[rtstrider]

Sounds like you have the same problem. One word of caution if you plan on using bleach, soaking black o-rings too long (several days in my case) will cause them to deteriorate. Don't know if the orange buna-n orings have the same issue but I ruined some of my fermonster o-rings this way.

I didn't soak in fear of picking up flavors. I just filled up the bucket to the gallon mark with hot water, threw a few splashes of concentrated bleach, wiped everything down, dumped and washed it out really good with water. After that I left it out in the sun for a few hours to dry/pull out any potential bleach smells.

 

[SoCal-Doug]

That s#it should come with a warning label

It kinda does on their website. I'm an avid user of 3711 and some other earth-destroying spooky scary Saison yeasts, but I do agree that any yeast or bacteria package should come with something on the label about brewing hygiene.

To be fair to the poor yeast, i'm a firm believer that many people get cross contamination on many types of yeast and probably never know it. But when you start messing with a yeast that can ferment distilled water and old gym socks, ya better keep yer s#it clean I've judged American lagers, kolsch's, pales and other [supposed to be] clean beers that had a distinctive Belgian, English or Saison aroma and flavor, later to hear "no, honest, I used WLP001"