Gap, Crush, and Efficiency

[rodwha]

I received a MM2 for Christmas. It came preset at 0.045", which seems a bit wide from what little I've read. It seems many set it to 0.030" or about a credit card width.

I checked my used iTunes card and found it to be 0.029" according to my calipers. If I'm conditioning my grains prior to crush will this be just a bit too narrow?

And how will it behave when crushing wheat (I use a lot of soft white wheat berries)?

I've adjusted it to iTunes card width now, and so without feeler gauges I'll not be able to set it properly to another setting, though I had considered that I could just loosen it a touch and call it close enough for now if this is too tight. Or maybe I can find something around the house that's a better width.

I've yet to try conditioning grains, but I'm not too concerned with a slow sparge (I BIAB using a large colander) if it ends up tearing up the husks more than ideally.

I must say that I am anxious to give it a go! I'm also looking forward to the freedom crushing your own grains gives.

 

[blizz81]

My anecdotal experience - I condition and crush at 0.028". There's a surprising amount of separated husk material retained, though the grist itself is pretty floury.


Two links of a recent crush:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-...AEqo/V9FGz1bqH2A/w1167-h875-no/IMAGE_978.jpeg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-...AEqw/nF_0LAzlNmk/w1167-h875-no/IMAGE_979.jpeg


I should add that we've been getting pretty much right around 80% brewhouse efficiency since dialing it down a notch from 0.030", but we changed a few things at the same time (tap water + campden vs. brita, large sturdy SS mash paddle vs. plastic paddle/spoon before, don't drain full-bore on batch sparge anymore...not a trickle, but not full bore). Batch sparge, bottom-drain keggle mash tun, recirc.

 

[scottcamps]

I'm hoping this thread gets legs, I'm really interested to see what other have experienced and I'm about to start crushing my own.

 

[OleGoatBrewing]

I'm hoping this thread gets legs, I'm really interested to see what other have experienced and I'm about to start crushing my own.

Same here!

 

[unionrdr]

I bought the Barley Crusher mill with the 7lb hopper. I do partial mash so it's fine for me with the hand crank. It has notches on the adjusters for a .039" gap. Gives a very even crush & also works great for a 2nd crush on grains from places that pre-crush all the grains they sell. I feel that it freshens them up nicely. Combined with my nylon grain bag & dunk sparging with a healthy stir my OG's went way up.

 

[rodwha]

I will be using the crank as well as I don't generally use more than about 6.5 lbs of grains, though I have considered trying to separate those that can just be steeped to increase how much I can mash as the 6.5 lbs is about the limit my large colander can handle without making too much of a mess.

Using store crushed grains my efficiency is usually above 75%. I both slowly pour sparge water through the grains, but often (when I have ample mash water as I set aside about 1.5-2 gals for sparge) dunk my grains in what's left of my unused brew water.

I must say that I wish there was a way to determine the gap without the need to measure the gap myself. Maybe I'll get a scratch awl to mark it...

 

[blizz81]

I must say that I wish there was a way to determine the gap without the need to measure the gap myself. Maybe I'll get a scratch awl to mark it...

Is it that difficult to measure with a feeler gauge? And once you have it set, it should hold pretty well, but still, measuring takes 30 seconds, right? Or maybe there's some aspect of a MM I'm not privy to.

 

[rodwha]

I don't have feeler gauges. I do have calipers and can find things that may be close to what I might want.

 

[blizz81]

A stop at an automotive parts store and $5-10 later could solve that, and any future spark plug gapping issues you may or may not encounter.

 

[rodwha]

I live just outside of a very small town (~13,000) that is a bit upscale. They don't allow many chain stores in. There's no auto parts stores or Wal-Marts. They complain about building apartments as it brings in the riffraff. And they can't find food servers as not many are wiling to do that sort of work.

So it's an effort to find things...

 

[rodwha]

It's against their rules to even have a garage sale here. It would make the neighborhood look bad...

I live in the large neighborhood just outside of their town, and they consider us pond scum as I've seen it said. We are actually lake scum as we have lake rights with a nice access, which they do not. And our lake is constant level whereas theirs is at 40% capacity with many of their fancy docks sitting in the dry dirt...

 

[TexasWine]

I live just outside of a very small town (~13,000) that is a bit upscale. They don't allow many chain stores in. There's no auto parts stores or Wal-Marts. They complain about building apartments as it brings in the riffraff. And they can't find food servers as not many are wiling to do that sort of work.

So it's an effort to find things...

Free shipping with Prime.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BYGIR4/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[LLBeanJ]

My MM2 is set to .030. I've never conditioned my grain. I'd say blizz's description is pretty similar to what I get. I use a cordless drill to run the mill and it has no problem chewing thru wheat at that setting. I have no idea what the experience would be like hand cranking. My typical efficiency is 80-82% with a 1.5 gal, room temp, pour-over-grain bag while hanging above the BK sparge. I dump the the whole lot in the hopper (barley, wheat, rye, whatever...) and let her rip.

 

[IslandLizard]

Honestly, I feel more comfortable with the wide plastic shim than the narrow metal gauge. A sander can adjust it down to perfection.

MM2 (1.5" rollers):
Barley @ 0.030-32"
Wheat, Rye @ 0.026-28"
Triticale, buckwheat, soft wheat berries, etc. 0.018-20"

 

[doug293cz]

My MM2 is set to .030. I've never conditioned my grain. I'd say blizz's description is pretty similar to what I get. I use a cordless drill to run the mill and it has no problem chewing thru wheat at that setting. I have no idea what the experience would be like hand cranking. My typical efficiency is 80-82% with a 1.5 gal, room temp, pour-over-grain bag while hanging above the BK sparge. I dump the the whole lot in the hopper (barley, wheat, rye, whatever...) and let her rip.

My process is similar, except I have a Barley Crusher set to 0.016" gap. On the two batches I measured carefully, I got 84% & 89% mash (conversion + lauter) efficiency.

Brew on

 

[rodwha]

Lizard: Why the different settings?

 

[The_Bishop]

I live just outside of a very small town (~13,000) that is a bit upscale. They don't allow many chain stores in. There's no auto parts stores or Wal-Marts. They complain about building apartments as it brings in the riffraff. And they can't find food servers as not many are wiling to do that sort of work.

So it's an effort to find things...

Try here:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BYGIR4/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[IslandLizard]

Lizard: Why the different settings?

Kernels are different sizes. Look at wheat or rye malt (small) vs. barley (plump). Wheat and rye almost drop through the barley gap. You can easily see the difference when milling wheat on 0.028" vs 0.034". Running them through 2x on 0.034" doesn't crush them better.

Try different gaps with your soft wheat berries, you'll see what I mean. You're now in power of the crush, not the other way around.

BTW, congrats on the MM2, nice mill!

 

[rodwha]

I've been pulsing my soft white wheat berries. No husk and no worries until I nearly turned it all to powder in a wheat beer... A slooow sparge thay day!

Thanks!

 

[rodwha]

I must ask what type of monitor lizard that is. I can't say for sure.

 

[bobeer]

I have a cereal killer mill and I use the credit card trick to set my gap. I learned my lesson with using a universal setting for all grain though. I milled up 10 lbs of Pearl malt and it caused a stuck sparge. Same with the stout malt I have too which has a very plump husk--almost twice as fat as any 2 row I've seen. Now, if it's mostly 2 row with some specialty malts I'll keep it around a credit card wide. If the grain looks more plump I adjust and use trial and error until the crush looks good. It can be a pain so I usually crush my grains the night before a brew day.

I dig being more hands on with my beer but sometimes I just get it crushed at the lhbs because I'm feeling lazy; and their crush has always been ok. I have a 6 month old that sucks all my energy so when I get to brew I just want to BREW!

 

[rodwha]

Brewing a partial mash BIPA today with 6.5 lbs of grains. I set the flaked barley and midnight wheat aside and tried conditioning my malts to run through my set gap of 0.029". Things worked out quite well!

Despite a 1.5 qt/lb ratio it's quite thick!

 

[rodwha]

I use a colander (very large) to sparge my BIAB bag through. This crush seems a little too fine as even pressing the bag as I usually do just floods it. I'm not getting very good drainage.

Maybe my first attempt wasn't perfect. I should have taken a picture. The interior was crushed quite fine whereas the husks looked about what I get when I order milled grains.

I possibly sprayed my 6.5 lbs of grains about 15 times with fine mist and stirred it up with my hands. It may have sat for 10 minutes before I milled it.

I really don't like the idea of adjusting my mill each time to mill some rather fine and others not, but it seems this would be a nice solution. I had considered buying some grains premilled, but that defeats a part of why I got one... Or just widen the gap a little.

 

[doug293cz]

I mill at 0.016" gap for BIAB, without any grain conditioning. With a 10 - 20 minute drain, I get less than 0.1 gal/lb retained water. With aggressive squeezing I can get down to 0.06 gal/lb retained water. That's better than the typical 0.125 gal/lb reported for traditional MLT's.

Brew on

 

[SEndorf]

There is an interesting phenomenon in home brewing (not in this thread) that chases efficiency like the mad hatter....
It goes like this.... You crack a brew for your friend, his eyeballs roll in back of his head and he turns three shades of green as his lips and mouth contort in unheard of ways due to the astringency.
He says, This s*** is undrinkable.
You say, so what!.... I hit 92% efficiency!
Some brewers seem grind their grist into dust thinking that's OK as long as I don't have a stuck sparge.
Personally, I'm in the camp that says screw it.. I will not make flour dust in my crush. If that means adding another dollars worth of grain, so be it.
What's the ultimate goal? Great beer, or numbers?

 

[unionrdr]

That's why I keep my barley crusher mill set at the factory .039". Good, even crush & my OG's are always higher than stated with a dunk sparge.

 

[dk21]

There is an interesting phenomenon in home brewing (not in this thread) that chases efficiency like the mad hatter....
It goes like this.... You crack a brew for your friend, his eyeballs roll in back of his head and he turns three shades of green as his lips and mouth contort in unheard of ways due to the astringency.
He says, This s*** is undrinkable.
You say, so what!.... I hit 92% efficiency!
Some brewers seem grind their grist into dust thinking that's OK as long as I don't have a stuck sparge.
Personally, I'm in the camp that says screw it.. I will not make flour dust in my crush. If that means adding another dollars worth of grain, so be it.
What's the ultimate goal? Great beer, or numbers?

Exactly. I have my MM2 set at .040", don't condition my malt, use rye and wheat fairly often, and get 78% efficiency with a double batch sparge.

 

[RM-MN]

There is an interesting phenomenon in home brewing (not in this thread) that chases efficiency like the mad hatter....
It goes like this.... You crack a brew for your friend, his eyeballs roll in back of his head and he turns three shades of green as his lips and mouth contort in unheard of ways due to the astringency.
He says, This s*** is undrinkable.
You say, so what!.... I hit 92% efficiency!
Some brewers seem grind their grist into dust thinking that's OK as long as I don't have a stuck sparge.
Personally, I'm in the camp that says screw it.. I will not make flour dust in my crush. If that means adding another dollars worth of grain, so be it.
What's the ultimate goal? Great beer, or numbers?

Nice story. I grind my grains to dust, get about 85% efficiency BIAB with a single small sparge and don't get any astringency.:cross:

 

[doug293cz]

There is an interesting phenomenon in home brewing (not in this thread) that chases efficiency like the mad hatter....
It goes like this.... You crack a brew for your friend, his eyeballs roll in back of his head and he turns three shades of green as his lips and mouth contort in unheard of ways due to the astringency.
He says, This s*** is undrinkable.
You say, so what!.... I hit 92% efficiency!
Some brewers seem grind their grist into dust thinking that's OK as long as I don't have a stuck sparge.
Personally, I'm in the camp that says screw it.. I will not make flour dust in my crush. If that means adding another dollars worth of grain, so be it.
What's the ultimate goal? Great beer, or numbers?

Astringency has nothing to do with grind. Tannins come from a combination of high mash/sparge pH and high temps. High temps alone will not lead to astringency.

Nothing wrong with trying to be more efficient, as long as nothing in the process goes awry because of it.

Brew on

 

[rodwha]

I'm seriously considering readjusting my gap. I mush prefer what MoreBeer's crush gave me.

As was said I'd prefer to spend another dollar and not deal with it.

However my efficiency was quite nice. I partial boil and in this batch I used 4 lbs of LME (~39%) but I ended up with an OG of 1.060 instead of 1.056 predicted for a 75% efficiency.

I have an oatmeal stout to o next week and will continue to look into this...