Galaxy/Citra NE style IIPA

[elburrogrande]

Splitting the crystal grains to half 10/half 20 should be the same or pretty similar to crystal 20 right? It's not in my beer smith (though I think I can add it) and I'm not sure if my LHBS has it. Also, how would that dry hop schedule compare to splitting them up into two? Maybe something like dry hopping half on day 3, again on day 5, then leave for 3 days.

Lastly, since I don't know my water profile, what would you all suggest for treating distilled water for this style? I know it's not feasible to get in the habit of brewing with distilled water, but it's a small batch so I'm not too worried about it this time.

Yeah that should work just as good. double dry hopping is the way to go for these imo. I would do half on day 3 then half 3-4 days before kegging/bottling. As for water profile I would recommend close to 1:1 ratio with Cl slightly higher. maybe 140 to 120

 

[Jaybird]

This is such a FUN style! So free from a style it just makes it such a fun beer to brew you can't really go wrong.
My ONLY suggestions is to keep the 60 min addition under 15ibu. Then hop the ever living crap out of it in whirlpool. Dry hop dry hop and dry hop some more!
Looks like a tasty beer your building!

Keep us posted

Cheers
Jay

 

[sam524]

Updated recipe:

Recipe Specifications
- Batch size: 3.5 gallons
- Estimated Color: 5.1 SRM
- Estimated OG: 1.082 SG
- Estimated IBU: 49.1 IBUs
- Estimated IBU/SG ratio: 0.818
- Mash @ 150 deg. fahrenheit for 60 min
- Boil Time: 60 Minutes
- Yeast: London Ale III

Grain bill
- 7 lbs 2-row American Pale (63.6%)
- 2lb Flaked Oats (18.2%)
- 1.5lb White Wheat Malt (13.6%)
- 4oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (2.3%)
- 4oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (2.3%)

Hops
- 0.1oz Apollo [17%] - Boil 60min (6.3 IBUs)
- 1oz Citra [12.25%] - Steep/Whirlpool 20min @ 175F (13.4 IBUS)
- 1oz Galaxy [14%] - Steep/Whirlpool 20min @ 175F (15.7 IBUS)
- 1oz Mosaic [12.15%] - Steep/Whirlpool 20min @ 175F (13.7 IBUS)
- 1oz Citra [12%] - Dry hop 6 days (on day 3)
- 1oz Galaxy [14%] - Dry hop 6 days
- 1oz Citra [12%] - Dry hop 3 days (on day 6)
- 1oz Galaxy [14%] - Dry hop 3 days

-Keg on day 9

Again, these numbers are from beersmith and may not be accurate (specifically the IBUs from the whirlpool hops)

 

[elburrogrande]

My advice would be to do away with the 60 minute Citra and add .25oz of CTZ instead

 

[sam524]

My advice would be to do away with the 60 minute Citra and add .25oz of CTZ instead

Whoops, meant to put Apollo for 60 instead. Updated it again.

 

[JoeMamasIPA]

Try to ferment the 1318 around 68-70 as it tastes much better than when fermented at low temps. Just be prepared for some serious yeast on malt violence.

 

[Gentlemans_Ale]

I like your first recipe better - you're second one just looks desperate with the 0.1 oz Apollo and the 20L and 10L crystal. Take other's criticism with a grain of salt or else pretty soon you'll be adding flour to the beer to ensure haziness.

 

[JoeMamasIPA]

I like your first recipe better - you're second one just looks desperate with the 0.1 oz Apollo and the 20L and 10L crystal. Take other's criticism with a grain of salt or else pretty soon you'll be adding flour to the beer to ensure haziness.

That is a good point, keep the grain bill simple. The haze is from hop oils. I don't like wheat/oats in this style as the mouthfeel aspect should be produced through the using the correct yeast and water additions.

 

[olotti]

I'm confused? Why not have a small 10 or 5 min addition along with a large whirlpool and hop stand, aren't those late boil additions for flavor anyway. And why suggested 30-40 ibu in a dipa, that seems insanely low especially if your doing a hop stand only at 175 deg since your not extracting bitterness only flavor and aroma. I ask because I'm gonna brew a dipa 1.083 og ne style and I have 80ibu in my boil along with a large hop stand and dble dry hop, I just wanna make sure I'm not over doing it.

 

[uSlackr]

I'm confused? Why not have a small 10 or 5 min addition along with a large whirlpool and hop stand, aren't those late boil additions for flavor anyway.

They may be primarily for flavor, but you will extract bitterness from them at that temp. Isomerization of alpha acids continues down to about 150F. The rate drops off but doesn't stop. At 175F you will get a lot of conversion especially if you hold the temp there for 30 mins. If you add them at 10 minutes, they'll be converting for 40 minutes. That makes them less of a late addition.

 

[olotti]

Isomerization of alpha acids continues down to about 150F. The rate drops off but doesn't stop. At 175 you will get a lot of conversion especially if you hold the temp there for 30 mins.

Right but I guess I always understood it at you get basically zero bitterness from 175-150 deg. Could be a reason why my beers are so hoppy. I hop stand for up to 60 min if I can, while also using small (less than 20 ibus worth) of additions at 10 and 5 min.

 

[HBHB]

Personally, i'd be bringing the 2 Galaxy dry hop additions back to 4 days. That should avoid any Grassy / Vegetal Notes that you get from Galaxy when it goes beyond about 4 or 5 days.

 

[Little_Lebowski]

Didn't read through all the pages here but did anyone discuss the "upped the oats" part of the recipe. Sorry I'm on my phone and couldn't read through all 6 pages. keep the flaked oats at 1 lb and when you "up the oats" used MALTED OATS! I'm on a mission to educate the misinformed about this "oats in NE IPA" thing. And please don't take this personally but it's not the flaked oats contributing to this style it's malted oats. They are nowhere near interchangeable in a recipe

 

[Little_Lebowski]

That is a good point, keep the grain bill simple. The haze is from hop oils. I don't like wheat/oats in this style as the mouthfeel aspect should be produced through the using the correct yeast and water additions.

IMO I agree and disagree. I agree with the heavy dry hop oils but you need some high protein adjuncts in the bill to act as a vehicle for the oils to cling and hold in suspension and this won't happen from flaked oats alone

 

[JoeMamasIPA]

IMO I agree and disagree. I agree with the heavy dry hop oils but you need some high protein adjuncts in the bill to act as a vehicle for the oils to cling and hold in suspension and this won't happen from flaked oats alone

Dry hop in the keg with loose pellets at 70 degrees to the tune of 1oz/gallon and the hop haze will be there and stick around for quite some time (3 weeks is as long as I have gone before kicking a keg). I use to think the adjuncts were key but I tried without because I don't like the flavor they add. My beers cannot be seen through at all. Yeast selection is crucial where 1318 is a great choice with Conan a close second in terms making the hop ils hang in there.

 

[uSlackr]

Right but I guess I always understood it at you get basically zero bitterness from 175-150 deg. Could be a reason why my beers are so hoppy. I hop stand for up to 60 min if I can, while also using small (less than 20 ibus worth) of additions at 10 and 5 min.

That is a misconception. Isomerization of alphas make bitterness and isomerization slows but happens down to ~150-160. When I told my local brewer I was getting too much bitterness he told me to cool quickly to 160. Of course adjusting when you hop and relying on the hop stand/whirlpool is fine so long as you account for what is happening.

 

[motosapiens]

My beers cannot be seen through at all.

is that something you're actually trying to achieve? or does it just happen from what you're doing for flavor/aroma?

 

[JoeMamasIPA]

is that something you're actually trying to achieve? or does it just happen from what you're doing for flavor/aroma?

B, I am not trying for haze by any stretch. Its just how the beers come out with heavy dry hops and the yeast used. Heavy oats/wheat taste just doesn't appeal to me in an IPA. I tried it twice and was not into it but others seem to enjoy it.

 

[olotti]

That is a misconception. Isomerization of alphas make bitterness and isomerization slows but happens down to ~150-160. When I told my local brewer I was getting too much bitterness he told me to cool quickly to 160. Of course adjusting when you hop and relying on the hop stand/whirlpool is fine so long as you account for what is happening.

Interesting. well I actually did take away the 10 min addition for this beer and upped the 5 min addition to 3oz ea Citra/Amarillo and increased the whirlpool and dry hop. I still started the hop stand at 175 for an hour with a 7oz hopstand but I guess I'll see where this goes. I did notice in the gravity sample that while hoppy and so much that it like stung the tongue it wasn't really super bitter just really really juicy or tangy hops. Also what's the effect of cooling quickly to 160 vs just letting the wort cool on its own, that's what I do, so just looking for tips I guess if it's more beneficial to chill quicker. I'll normally cut the boil then move the kettle to the garage floor and cover half with sanitized foil just so nothing gets in and I'll let it drop on its own which today took about 20 min to get to 175 then I'll start the hopstand.

 

[olotti]

B, I am not trying for haze by any stretch. Its just how the beers come out with heavy dry hops and the yeast used. Heavy oats/wheat taste just doesn't appeal to me in an IPA. I tried it twice and was not into it but others seem to enjoy it.

I've also been told that really high amounts of oats like 2lbs plus can leave a beer feeling slick on the tongue and can diminish the head. Don't know for sure as I've only used up to 1 1/2lbs of oats in an IPA and that was just brewed today otherwise I'll use 2lbs in a RIS, or just 8oz In a lower abv NEIPA style.

 

[benco]

So what are the oats supposed to add to this fine beer?

 

[Little_Lebowski]

Please, for sanity sake... when you guys say oats can you specify FLAKED OR MALTED? There's obviously a lot of education going on in this thread and throwing "oats" around so generally is going to screw this guys recipe up. I hate being the oat police but it's vital to know the difference!

 

[Little_Lebowski]

I've also been told that really high amounts of oats like 2lbs plus can leave a beer feeling slick on the tongue and can diminish the head. Don't know for sure as I've only used up to 1 1/2lbs of oats in an IPA and that was just brewed today otherwise I'll use 2lbs in a RIS, or just 8oz In a lower abv NEIPA style.

In this case you're obviously speaking of flaked oats correct? And you're right too much FLAKED oats can leave a greasy slick feeling and reduce head retention. Specifically why you can't interchange flaked or malted in recipes.

 

[Little_Lebowski]

http://www.alesoftheriverwards.com/2016/07/brewing-nepa-with-thomas-fawcett-malted.html?m=1

This is a good read to go further into the oat thing... light bulb moment when this guy realized the difference as well in a pro brewers recipe

His recipe was 80/20 2row/flaked oats before he realized

 

[Little_Lebowski]

I also just noticed you took out the carapils from the original recipe. I'd definitely throw it back in there. I always love throwing in 7-10% carapils into my IPAs don't have to worry about adding any additional color or sweetness but it will add to the body and mouthfeel. Definitely a mainstay grain in my IPAs

 

[olotti]

In this case you're obviously speaking of flaked oats correct? And you're right too much FLAKED oats can leave a greasy slick feeling and reduce head retention. Specifically why you can't interchange flaked or malted in recipes.

Yes sorry it is flaked oats. I think at this point when people say oats they are assuming it's flaked oats, I'm not sure how readily available malted oats are to people, I know my lhbs doesn't carry them as of now but I was told they will be getting them in though and it seems in most of the NEIPA recipes here if not all of them when oats are used its flaked oats.

 

[Little_Lebowski]

Yes sorry it is flaked oats. I think at this point when people say oats they are assuming it's flaked oats, I'm not sure how readily available malted oats are to people, I know my lhbs doesn't carry them as of now but I was told they will be getting them in though and it seems in most of the NEIPA recipes here if not all of them when oats are used its flaked oats.

:smack:

If they are, it's because they're misinformed. Increased amounts of flaked oats in these beers will do nothing to help land your brew closer to this style. Please look in to it. Northern Brewer carries TF malted oats but it is true they are hard to find at this time.

 

[Little_Lebowski]

http://brulosophy.com/2016/11/21/the-impact-of-flaked-oats-on-new-england-ipa-exbeeriment-results/

 

[motosapiens]

http://brulosophy.com/2016/11/21/the-impact-of-flaked-oats-on-new-england-ipa-exbeeriment-results/

i love that site. did you happen to read their exbeeriment on carapils?

 

[motosapiens]

So what are the oats supposed to add to this fine beer?

whatever you want, but I can't think of any good reason to go over 10% or so.

there are 2 pro recipes from no-da and weldwerks published in beer and brewing mag dec-jan issue. weldwerks specifies flaked oats, no-da doesn't specify, just says 'oats'.

I would suspect that since flaked oats are by far the most common ones seen in recipes and brewshops, that flaked oats are what most people assume unless otherwise specified.