Fuller's Water

[huckbof]

The head brewer at Fuller's in London says they use London tap water.
I don't know what they do to it except he did say they now add CaSO4 after they switched from well water when the Thames became too polluted around WWII. Since it is an old brewery that probably doesn't change a lot and RO technology came later, I am assuming they get rid of any chlorine and then add CaSO4. Is anyone knowledgeable on London tap water or what Fuller's does?

If I am starting with RO water, what gypsum concentration should I use to clone Fuller's ESB? 5.9% abv 32 ebc, 35 ibu, fg 1011

 

[mabrungard]

I encourage you to read the article on London water in one of last year's Zymurgy issues. Apparently the head brewer at Fullers is not aware that most of London still obtains their water from the Thames. Its just that they draw the water out of the river, way upstream of London now. They've been doing that for well over a 100 years...not since WW2. The biggest change is that most of the London brewers and other industry have stopped using their own wells since they were overpumping the aquifer and they were drawing in salt-water.

The article includes specific knowledge and guidance on the various sources and history. In general, pale beers were made with the Thames water and Porter was made with the well water. If you aren't an AHA member, I highly recommend you join. The access to the archived magazines should be worth it...alone.

 

[huckbof]

Apparently the head brewer at Fullers is not aware that most of London still obtains their water from the Thames. Its just that they draw the water out of the river, way upstream of London now. They've been doing that for well over a 100 years...not since WW2. The biggest change is that most of the London brewers and other industry have stopped using their own wells since they were overpumping the aquifer and they were drawing in salt-water.

I am sure he knew all that you said already, why would you dis him like that?
He said that is when they switched from well water presumably because Thames water feeds or leaks into their well and was having a negative impact. Why would you question his specific Fuller's knowledge?
You can hear it yourselF on a BN podcast, well worth a listen.

 

[Hanglow]

John Keeling sometimes responds to brewing questions on twitter if you are on it, might be worth asking

 

[mabrungard]

I am sure he knew all that you said already, why would you dis him like that?
He said that is when they switched from well water presumably because Thames water feeds or leaks into their well and was having a negative impact. Why would you question his specific Fuller's knowledge?

My apologies, but I don't think that I dis'd him nor did I intend to. I was speaking with respect to my knowledge of surface and groundwater hydrology in the London Basin and the history of London water usage, which is fairly extensive. If he has studied those fields as a component of his experience at Fullers, then I again apologize. However, based on your comments above, it does not appear that he has. Thames water leaking into the chalk aquifer below London is not the primary problem, its salt-water intrusion. The other impact to the chalk aquifer was the industrial pollution that is typical in a big city with industry. Ultimately, the industrial well water users were forced to stop using their wells by regulatory fiat.

 

[Hanglow]

I think he's referring to the brewing networks "can you brew it" series where they interviewed john keeling for a few of fullers beers. I don't think John would have gone into too much depth in those, I haven't listened to them in quite a while though. from what I remember he just said they burtonise their water, by the sounds of it he didn't say how much gypsum

Incidentally, london water is awful to drink from the tap It feels thick if you know what I mean

 

[huckbof]

yeah, you got it, 5.10.2010 he called it a "standard burtonization technique" using only gypsum, so if London water is roughly 0.8g gypsum iin 5 gals and they add gypsum to it then it is probably less than idk 9g/5gals, but that is a total guess based on the "Mosher/toned-down, "idealized" burton profile. idk if i should go that high or not.

btw I had the wrong war, it was WWI, here is the quote

"we use standard London tap water and that's because we're so close to the Thames, that about the first world war our wells were becoming more and more polluted and ceased to be fit for brewing so we swung over gradually to use the town's water, we changed our water to be the right water for that particular brew"

 

[huckbof]

Thames water leaking into the chalk aquifer below London is not the primary problem, its salt-water intrusion. The other impact to the chalk aquifer was the industrial pollution that is typical in a big city with industry. Ultimately, the industrial well water users were forced to stop using their wells by regulatory fiat.

Look at the quote above in post7. Google maps shows the brewery 200 ft from the Thames in Chiswick

https://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&gws_rd=ssl&um=1&ie=UTF-8&fb=1&gl=us&cid=17631792239340690545&q=Fuller%27s+Brewery&sa=X&ei=rt4VVeLTJcmhNpagguAC&ved=0CJEBEPwSMAs&output=classic&dg=brw

 

[Hermit]

Hydrology is independent of your perception of what you think is or should be happening for whatever reasoning you apply to it.