Fullers recipes for ESB/Pride/Chiswick, Imperials, NEIPA - from the horse's mouth

[Northern_Brewer]

The Fuller's brewers have been giving Twitter some peeks at their brewing book over the last few months - and clarifying a few points in the subsequent tweets :

The big one - the partigyle recipe for 260hl:520hl:260hl of ESB:London Pride:Chiswick Bitter :
https://twitter.com/FullersHayley/status/946762356914352133

Their 10.7% Imperial Stout and 10.5% Imperial IPA :
https://twitter.com/FullersHenry/status/940884021273333760

The Olicana/Simcoe/Chinook NEIPA collaboration with Cloudwater :
https://twitter.com/FullersHenry/status/892656324781232128

 

[ESBrewer]

Great stuff and people, thanks for sharing this NB. At least I'm in the right ball park now. Seems that the crystal in parti-gyle is now lighter than couple of years ago but the amount is a bit higher (although the exact malt is not defined and the definition of light could vary). And the amount of chocolate used to tilt color seems very small (0.2% of total weight).

 

[day_trippr]

Ok, for the NEIPA late hop additions, what phases of the brew process do "declaration", "chill", and "MV" refer to?

Cheers!

[edit] nvm, read through the Twitter feed...

 

[ESBrewer]

^ I don't know the exact fermentation schedule for their NEIPA, but FV means fermentation vessel so these are the dry hops. Declaration probably means in the beginning of fermentation (or the first of these additions at least), chill is when they cool down the vessel (for the parti-gyle brews they chill down for I think 1-2 days in the primary immediately post fermentation then transfer to secondary, heat up for some days to condition and then again cool down for a 'cold crash', NEIPA could be different). MV could be maturation vessel (secondary, I think). When brewing cask beers they tend to add dry hops even in the cask. Bottled beers receive some extra hops in the primary/secondary. This is approximately what former head brewer told in an interview in 2010.

 

[Hanglow]

Is the No3 Powder below the gypsum addition the same as the BYF No3 that Murphy's sell for brewing? As in Sodium Hydrogen Sulphate

also only just noticed they used potassium chloride in their stout there

always good to see them use some of the brewing sugar too And I'lll try 1g of black pepper in my next IPA

 

[day_trippr]

If I have the NEIPA notes/comments correct:

- Mash just under 153 with 168°F mash-out/sparge
- Zero boil hop additions
- Epic pile of Simcoe whirlpooled at 205°F
- Olicana added once fermentation is evident ("declaration"). Apparently they run their yeast blend at ~59°F.
- Simcoe added post-fermentation/chilling down to ~43°F
- Chinook dry-hopped in "maturation vessel", presumably at 43°F

Only thing missing is the time schedule from start to finish.
But one could ball-park the whirlpool duration given the near-boiling temperature, and the rest likely follows the typical neipa post-fermentation timing.

Never heard of making an apparently quite effective filter - of something - using a metric crap load of oat husks.
And anyone use "Olicana" hops yet? That's a new strain for me...

Cheers!

 

[Hanglow]

I had the NEIPA and wouldn't call it that btw, here's a picture I took of it

I think it was in tanks for about 12 weeks or so before it was released? which is a fair bit of time.

It was however a very nice hoppy beer, albeit with a fairly muted aroma for its size - think more modern pale ale than modern IPA .


oat husks are what is used in the uk instead of rice hulls for stopping getting a stuck mash

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Declaration probably means in the beginning of fermentation...MV could be maturation vessel

See the Twitter threads - declaration is "the start of fermentation", MV is maturation vessel.

always good to see them use some of the brewing sugar too And I'lll try 1g of black pepper in my next IPA

Surely British brewers using sugar is so commonplace to be unremarkable? It's the logistics of quarter of a tonne of treacle that boggles the mind, there's a pic on Twitter with several ?25kg buckets. Also worth noting that even though most people would regard Fuller's as being generous with the crystal, and your comment that they're now using more - they are still only using 7.2% crystal in the main partigyle.

If I have the NEIPA notes/comments correct:

...Only thing missing is the time schedule from start to finish.
But one could ball-park the whirlpool duration given the near-boiling temperature, and the rest likely follows the typical neipa post-fermentation timing.

Never heard of making an apparently quite effective filter - of something - using a metric crap load of oat husks.
And anyone use "Olicana" hops yet? That's a new strain for me...

You can probably cross-reference some of the process with the Cloudwater blog, eg for DIPA v1 and the DIPA series.

As Hanglow says, in the UK we can grow oats but not rice, so oat husks are what the processors have available as waste product to use as a mash tun filter.

Olicana is a 2014 release from the Faram breeding programme. It was hyped as giving tropical flavours from British terroir - but more muted, it's nothing like Galaxy - but it seems rather hit and miss. I'm not sure if they haven't quite worked out the right time to harvest it or something, which was a problem in the early days of hops like Citra.It certainly doesn't seem to have gained the traction of its sister Jester, but you can get it from British suppliers like BrewUK and Malt Miller. (no affiliation)

I had the NEIPA and wouldn't call it that btw...I think it was in tanks for about 12 weeks or so before it was released? which is a fair bit of time....

I'm not clear whether they just did the one brew on 3rd August or whether they brewed it again for the Fuller's & Friends pack now available in Waitrose. I'd be surprised if Cloudwater would have allowed such a long wait, but Fuller's brew, Fuller's rules....

The NZ saison with Marble is lovely though.

 

[Hanglow]

My favourite beer from that pack was the ESB they brewed with Moor, but they were all very good with the exception of the lager with fourpure (who make excellent lagers themselves) which I didn't particularly think much of

As for sugar, most breweries don't use it any more do they? some of the old trad ones do and I wish more did, but most succumbed to the "sugar is bad/cheap" bollocks

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Haven't got to the ESB yet - is it worth getting a bottle of normal ESB to have side-by-side, or have they gone too far towards the US for the comparison to be relevant? I've also just noticed the Dec 2019 BB date - I'm sure Cloudwater are thrilled about that!!!

I see some kind of sugar in most of the brewery warehouses I visit, although it may be that like here they save it for the higher ABV specials rather than the session beers. But to give one example, that recipe in the blog link above has glucose syrup in it, you don't get much more non-trad than a Cloudwater DIPA!!!

A few more quotes from the Twitter replies I meant to add :

@FullersHayley: We do approx 2/3 [of the hops] in the 1st copper and 1/3 in the second copper

@FullersHayley: we use the same Fullers yeast for all Fullers beers, that's what gives many of them that hint of marmalade

@FullersHenry: Imperial is @SimpsonsMalt specialty malt which to be is a bit like the missing link between Amber and Munich.

@SaddestOfFields: Am I reading that right as Black Pepper in the IPA? For a boost in Linalool, Pinene and Limonene?
@FullersHenry: Yes a fun idea that seems to work- albeit in very small doses. We had fun (and some disasters ) small scale trialling how much to use.

This article talks about brewing with the different types of "pepper" corns, although 2 teaspoons in 5 gal at 10 minutes is rather different to Fuller's 1g in 26 litres equivalent at flameout. It's something I've been meaning to try.

Oh, and @day_trippr - Fuller's no longer have a yeast blend, they've been single-strain since moving to conicals in the late-70s.

 

[ESBrewer]

Oh, and @day_trippr - Fuller's no longer have a yeast blend, they've been single-strain since moving to conicals in the late-70s.

Yes, but do you think NEIPA could use yeast or even yeast blend from Cloudwater as it is brewed in collaboration? Then they have the Gales brewery yeast that is used in the Gales HSB and probably Seafarer's ale brewed now by Fuller's.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Yes, but do you think NEIPA could use yeast or even yeast blend from Cloudwater as it is brewed in collaboration? Then they have the Gales brewery yeast that is used in the Gales HSB and probably Seafarer's ale brewed now by Fuller's.

Nah - I read it as "if it's Fuller's on the label, it's the Fuller's yeast". Cloudwater don't have their own yeast, they often use WLP095 and WLP4000 (and on their blog talk quite a bit about the differences, they're not the same "Conan") and are fascinated by the old yeasts of the family companies - they've used the Lees' yeast a lot in their own beers.

 

[Hanglow]

Haven't got to the ESB yet - is it worth getting a bottle of normal ESB to have side-by-side, or have they gone too far towards the US for the comparison to be relevant?

I actually bought a bottle of ESB to try side by side with the other bottle of it I have. not done so yet but I am looking forward to doing so

 

[applescrap]

Can someone put these into 5g recipes? I would be really really thankful.

 

[Derp]

Very interesting, as Fuller's ESB and London Pride are two of my favorite beers. I was hoping that these records would give me some insight on brewing a clone, but I'll admit that I don't really understand them and I understand the process of partigyling even less. I brewed an ESB clone a few weeks ago and it was great, but the marmalade taste was nowhere to be found. Perhaps I fermented too cool? Any suggestions to get that great flavor out of 1968?

 

[Derp]

Can someone put these into 5g recipes? I would be really really thankful.

Likewise!

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Can someone put these into 5g recipes? I would be really really thankful.

Well most of them are sized for 260hl, so just by replacing kg for grams you'll get the right amounts for 26 litres. Then multiply by 0.73 and you'll get to the right amounts for 5 US gallons... Having said that, they will be getting much higher efficiency than the average homebrewer, so converting kg to g will probably give the right amount for 20-21 litres.

Gets a little bit complicated with the partigyle though :

http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/brew-strong-questions-with-fullers-part-1/
http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/brew-strong-questions-with-fullers-part-2/
Individual clones : http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/?s=fuller

http://allaboutbeer.com/quirks-of-brewing-parti-gyle-brewing/

Fuller’s uses two mash tuns, staggered so that one is resting while one is being collected into a copper. Georgina Young, Fuller’s current Brewing Manager, described it for me. “The mash tun stand is simple infusion at 65° C [149° F] of 50 minutes. We then recirculate the bed for 10 minutes until the wort is clear and start collecting it in the copper.” They collect the first worts from both mash tuns—the high-gravity worts—into one kettle (known in Britain as a copper). Young continues: “When [the first kettle] is full (520HL) we continue the sparge on both mash tuns but collect the [small] worts into the second copper. The last runnings are typically 1005 SG for both mash tuns.”

They boil the strong and weak worts separately, adding hops at the start and end of the 60-minute boil. “So we now start proportioning the wort to make the beers,” Young explains. “We know the target extract, so all we have to do is calculate how much first wort and then second wort is needed to achieve 260HL in each fermentation vessel at the correct original gravity.” And from these two worts come the four beers, in strengths of 8.5% (Golden Pride), 5.9% (ESB), 4.7% (London Pride), and 3.5% (Chiswick).

They don't always (usually?) brew Golden Pride though.

https://byo.com/recipe/fuller-s-the-pride-of-london/

“It’s the same grist for each of those beers,” said Keeling. “Very simple. 95% British pale ale malt with 5% crystal malt (with a color of 75 °L). We mash it for 60 minutes between 64–65 °C (147–149 °F) and recirculate the runnings until clear. We begin sparging with 76 °C (169 °F) water and then start to collect the runnings. The first runnings all go into the first copper, which is completely filled as the sparging continues. This will be higher gravity. A second copper is filled with the rest of the runnings. Then each copper has a one-hour boil with the first copper using a much higher percentage of bittering hops than the second, lower-gravity, copper. We use Target as our bittering hops. Then we pitch yeast for both coppers at 17 °C (63 °F) before raising the temperature up to 20 °C (68 °F) for the main fermentation. Then it is lowered again.”

Keeling and his crew blend back the two collections of runnings in various percentages to come up with their four different beers. Golden Pride, an 8.5% ABV barleywine, will have the highest percentage of the first, high-gravity, copper. On the other end of the scale, Chiswick Bitter weighing in at 3.5% ABV, would use the highest percentage of the second copper containing lower-gravity runnings. Falling in the middle are ESB at 5.9% ABV and London Pride with an ABV of 4.7%.

While homebrewers can certainly experiment with parti-gyle techniques to produce multiple beers from a single batch, Keeling doesn’t think it is a necessity to brew recreations of these Fuller’s classics at home. “You can certainly get close to making these beers using a single recipe for each. You don’t need to brew parti-gyle to get close,” said Keeling. Keeling reviewed our clone recipes for London Pride, ESB and London Porter and you can find this collection of recipes below.

 

[ESBrewer]

I don't think it is necessary to parti-gyle (make several beers from a single mash) at home if you don't want to play around with it. It is mainly for commercial efficiency (they get the most out of grains, hops & equipment and may use as single mash & sparge to produce several related beers in certain ratios based on their demand).

A generalized recipe is something like

92.6% (in weight) British 2-row pale ale malt (any, but they seem to use Propino & Concerto barley at the moment so no need to be Maris Otter)
7.2% Crystal (EBC about 100-150 or 40-60 Lovibond), don't make it with 9-10% EBC150 if u want to nail it
0.2% Chocolate malt (for some color)

The exact amount of grain should be so that you end up with OG of 1.055-59 for ESB or 1.040-42 for LP.
Bittering 60min hop is Target only and it should bring about 80% of the total IBUs that are about 35 for both these beers. (Use calculator to estimate amounts).

Late copper hops are added just minutes (2-3min) before the end of boil and are something like 45%/45%/10% (in terms of IBUs) Challenger/Northdown/EKG. Totaling 20% of the IBUs (~7 IBUs of the total 35).

Pitch at 18C and at half gravity increase until you reach 20-21C. When ready you can cool down to drop some more yeast and transfer to secondary with some dry hops (they seem to use target here). Could then cold crash.

Something you need to figure out yourself is the pitch rate and exact temperatures you like for the 1968 or WLP002 that may differ slightly from the current yeast at Fuller's. Could also try to extract yeast from a bottle of 1845 if not happy with commercial yeasts. Mash temp may need to be adjusted to match your needs, the sheet would say now it was 71C which is high, 2010 they used just 5% EBC150 crystal and 64-65C mash without chocolate malt but probably colored with brewer's caramel, I think.

Most waters need to be burtonized using CaSO4 and pH adjusted to X. Level of carbonation should be quite low even in the bottled versions. A nice thing is that you don't need to drink it ice cold so that a little bit of chill haze may not affect the looks too much.

 

[Derp]

A generalized recipe is something like

Thanks for the tips! Your screen name leads me to believe that you’re an expert. I adjusted my last recipe to conform more closely to your figures. Does it look ok?

This is the water profile that I used last time. I use RO water:

Calcium 116
Magnesium 4
Sodium 28
Sulphate 194
Chloride 85
Mash pH 5.3

75% efficiency
OG 1.059
36.4 IBU
10.3 SRM
5.8% ABV (Expected FG 1.015)

23 lbs Maris Otter Malt (Muntons) (3.0 SRM 92.6 %
1 lbs 12.5 oz Crystal, English (Muntons) (52.0 SRM) 7.2 %
1.0 oz Chocolate Malt (Muntons) (425.0 SRM) 0.3 %

Mash at 149F.

2.00 oz Target 8.6 [8.60 %] - Boil 60.0 min 29.0 IBUs
1.25 oz Challenger [6.80 %] - Boil 5.0 min 2.9 IBUs
1.25 oz Northdown [7.90 %] - Boil 5.0 min 3.3 IBUs
0.50 oz East Kent Goldings (EKG) [7.20 %] - Boil 5.0 min 1.2 IBUs

Ferment at 68F.

Dry hop with 1 oz of EKG for 3 or 4 days.

I may add a few mililiters of homemade caramel coloring bump up the color to where I like it.

 

[ESBrewer]

^ You'll be in the right ballpark, I think. But cloning it exactly depends on esters, exact balance between hops and malts and other small details. I'm just a beginner who has recently put some effort to find out how it should be done. Brewed two batches that were a bit too crystal/dark (~9% EBC150 + 0.7 / 1% chocolate) and with too little hop aroma. First batch had wlp002 and less chocolate and was definitely closer than the second with ringwood "cola" yeast & too much dark tones. Third batch used some of the above guidelines from Keeling, 1968 yeast and secondary vessel. It is definitely going to be my best so far. It probably still needs some fine tuning. But the carbonation of third batch is going to take about two more weeks so it is too early to say for sure. I feel the color is not far from the original (I have 4.2% of EBC150 crystal 0.7% EBC225 crystal and 0.4% chocolate now).

If I would change something in your recipe so I would focus on late kettle hops by calculating the same IBUs with just 2 min boil time because that gives much more hops in grams -> more aromas/even flavor with same amount of bitterness. I think Keeling stressed out in an interview that the amount of EKG is low on purpose. But that's really up to your taste.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

For a roughly 5.5 gallons to the fermenter batch simply multiply KG as seen in the Fullers recipes by 0.00175 for pounds, or multiply by 0.028 for ounces. That should get you close enough for a good starting point.

And for 11 gallons to the fermenter multiply by 0.0035 for pounds and by 0.056 for ounces.

 

[Derp]

If I would change something in your recipe so I would focus on late kettle hops by calculating the same IBUs with just 2 min boil time because that gives much more hops in grams -> more aromas/even flavor with same amount of bitterness.

They were originally 3-minute additions, but I changed them to 5 in order to squeeze out more IBUs. I guess I'll try much larger amounts at 2 minutes and see if it helps. I can cool 12 gallons down below 170 in a minute or two with my immersion chiller, so I wonder if the massive scale of a commercial setup means that they extract more bitterness as they cool thousands of gallons of wort?

I toured the brewery in 2014 and I was surprised at the small size of their hop storage room. They had the day's hops weighed out in 5-gallon buckets and there weren't all that many considering how large their batches are.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

the amount of EKG is low on purpose.

Question to which I don't know the answer - is it really EKG? The fact they wrote "Goldings" in the book suggests to me that they're Hereford Goldings rather than the more expensive (and quicker to write) EKG.

When adjusting to 5 gallons, make sure to allow for different efficiencies - which gets complicated if sugars and other compounds come out at relatively different rates to theirs (ie eg 70% efficiency in sugar extraction but 60% or 80% for flavour compounds)....

 

[ESBrewer]

^ Yes that might be the case, they only say Goldings everywhere. I also thought about the possibility that sugars and flavors and even colored compounds will be extracted at different times. My third batch was done with a brief batch sparge only. This was to mimick the nature of parti-gyle where (although everything will be sparged from the grains in > 200 minutes) ESB contains more compounds from the first runnings coming out of the tuns (first copper), compared to London Pride or Chiswick. Especially when/if they are not brewing Golden Pride (this seems to be the case in the sheet shown in twitter post).

 

[McKnuckle]

Mash temp may need to be adjusted to match your needs, the sheet would say now it was 71C which is high...

I did a bunch of math and determined that 71ºC is actually the strike temp needed to hit a mash temp of 147.5ºF.

Most waters need to be burtonized using CaSO4 and pH adjusted to X.

If you follow their stated rate of 1.33g/kg of gypsum (using grist weight), you'll get a kettle SO4 level of about 120 ppm and a Ca level of around 50 ppm in RO/distilled water. Numbers will vary a bit of course, depending on your system. But they are good ballpark figures.

 

[McKnuckle]

Late copper hops are added just minutes (2-3min) before the end of boil and are something like 45%/45%/10% (in terms of IBUs) Challenger/Northdown/EKG. Totaling 20% of the IBUs (~7 IBUs of the total 35).

I would be careful to heed this without taking note of the 30 minute whirlpool that's employed after knockout*. If you calculate enough hops to contribute 20% during just the last 3 minutes of the boil, then stand for 30 minutes before chilling, I think the beer may be excessively bitter.

I am struggling with this part right now - but have decided to use the ratios of hops stated in the recipe (from the first copper). The IBU estimate I'm seeing is only 25, but it's sure to increase with a 30 minute whirlpool.

*as described by the head brewer on a CYBI episode from 2010

 

[ESBrewer]

Could be if you do the hot 30 min whirlpool, I only do some whirlpool while chilling the wort in a bath and it is cooling down already. Used 4 mins for calculations and boil myself and I feel it is by no means excessively hoppy or bitter. But it depends on how much you dry hop etc. and I haven't tasted it post carbonation.

 

[FLJohnson]

The ESB recipe appears to have changed since 2010. From an interview with the Fuller's brewer on The Brewing Network show Can You Brew It, April 25, 2010, the recipe contained 5% crystal 150 EBC, and no chocolate malt was used.

 

[McKnuckle]

I agree with that recipe observation, and I keep wondering how light crystal will produce an SRM of greater than about 8. I need to bump up the crystal Lovibond to 80 in order to approach the color of ESB. Light UK crystal tops out at about 40.

Notice how the same "cry light" nomenclature is in the IPA recipe.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

The ESB recipe appears to have changed since 2010. From an interview with the Fuller's brewer on The Brewing Network show Can You Brew It, April 25, 2010, the recipe contained 5% crystal 150 EBC, and no chocolate malt was used.

What EBC (or Lovibond) of crystal are they presently using for ESB? I thought they used 75L or 90L UK crystal.