Full boil of extract kit

[johnthemann]

First of all let me say that I really enjoy this forum and it's members...what a wealth of information for a new brewer. With that being said I am about to embark on my first homebrew I have a 10 gallon brew pot and would like to do a full boil as opposed to a partial with added water in the fermenter. I have searched and read a lot about this process and understand that my hop additions will need some adjustment..no problem got all of that. My question is regarding the grain steeping process. The instructions indicate that I should steep the grains in a bag in 2.5 gallons of water for 20 minutes or until the temp reaches 170 degrees. Again I get this..my question is should I do this on a separate vessel on a separate burner and then add to my main brew pot when it reaches 170 degrees as well? or can I just steep in my main brew pot with 2.5 gallons of water and add the additional water after the steep? Problem being my additional water will not be 170 degrees...Im guessing this will not be good? I think I have my head wrapped around the rest of the process...Im just hung up on this one. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. The kit Im working with is Dead Ringer IPA from NB. Im probably way overthinking the entire process

 

[Upthewazzu]

If you can brew a full boil, then it's been my experience to ignore all the partial boil instructions. If you aim is 5gallons, then start with 6gal (or whatever depending on your boil-off rate) and go from there. You shouldn't need to adjust your hop schedule or anything else for full boil.

P.S. for steeping, keep it around 155° if possible, don't go to 170° if you can prevent it.

 

[BeerFst]

I did the same thing you are trying to do a few weeks ago with NB's split open and melt. Its still hanging out in the primary so I haven't tasted it just yet, but it seems to have worked without issue.

I had bought a couple 2.5G containers of water, and after the steep was done, I held the bag above the BK and my brew buddy dumped the water over the bag...sort of a pseudo-sparge I guess. I'm interested to hear other thoughts here too.

Though I knew that the hop utilization would be better with the larger boil, it didn't occur to me that NB also knew this and had accounted for the extra hops needed with the smaller, more sugar dense boil. I checked the AG version and their hop schedule is way lighter. I'll probably hit a few more IBUs, but I'm not really that concerned.

 

[johnthemann]

So were the extra 2.5 gallon containers to temp (170 degrees) or did you dump them in the BK at room temp?..wondering if it really matters?

 

[Qhrumphf]

If you can brew a full boil, then it's been my experience to ignore all the partial boil instructions. If you aim is 5gallons, then start with 6gal (or whatever depending on your boil-off rate) and go from there. You shouldn't need to adjust your hop schedule or anything else for full boil.

P.S. for steeping, keep it around 155° if possible, don't go to 170° if you can prevent it.

That's not correct. Increased boil size will require adjustment to the hop scedule as the OP had already indicated. Larger boil equals more efficient utilization of the hops, and less hops needed for bittering. Simply adjusting the boil settings in any brewing software program and then adjusting the first hop addition until you get the same IBUs and you'll be good to go. I'd leave the late hops (if any) exactly as is.

As far as the steeping grains, you can do it a bunch of ways. Steeping them in the whole amount of water is one way to do it, although while it's probably paranoia on my part, I'd be concerned about possible tannin extraction at that point, especially if you overshoot the temp. So I would probably follow the instructions, steep the grains at 155-160 for 30 mins or so, and then add the rest of your water.

 

[Yooper]

That's not correct. Increased boil size will require adjustment to the hop scedule as the OP had already indicated. Larger boil equals more efficient utilization of the hops, and less hops needed for bittering. Simply adjusting the boil settings in any brewing software program and then adjusting the first hop addition until you get the same IBUs and you'll be good to go. I'd leave the late hops (if any) exactly as is.

As far as the steeping grains, you can do it a bunch of ways. Steeping them in the whole amount of water is one way to do it, although while it's probably paranoia on my part, I'd be concerned about possible tannin extraction at that point, especially if you overshoot the temp. So I would probably follow the instructions, steep the grains at 155-160 for 30 mins or so, and then add the rest of your water.

Not really. A full boil may increase utilization 20% or so, but nothing more so I wouldn't even think about that.

I agree though that I'd steep the grains in a smaller volume (for a number of reasons, but mostly because it'd be faster to bring the entire volume to a boil if you steep the grains separately and then add the liquid after the other water volume is near boil- in other words, heat the other water while you're steeping) but you don't have to if it's inconvenient.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Not really. A full boil may increase utilization 20% or so, but nothing more so I wouldn't even think about that.

I agree though that I'd steep the grains in a smaller volume (for a number of reasons, but mostly because it'd be faster to bring the entire volume to a boil if you steep the grains separately and then add the liquid after the other water volume is near boil- in other words, heat the other water while you're steeping) but you don't have to if it's inconvenient.

Depending on the beer, a 20% difference in utilization is enough that I'd pay attention to it. But I'm also anal about that kind of stuff.

I mean, it's not going to hurt to toss em all in, but it's still a little more bitterness. May not notice in some beers. May notice it in others. If that's not a concern to the OP then cool, but it's incorrect to say it doesn't impact the beer.

 

[johnthemann]

and thats the answer I was looking for. I will steep the grains in separate pot and add to water in my brew kettle at or around 155. Im going to follow the FG recipe for hop additions. I think this will work. Thanks everyone for the responses. I will post as to how it turns out..fingers crossed!!

 

[Yooper]

Depending on the beer, a 20% difference in utilization is enough that I'd pay attention to it. But I'm also anal about that kind of stuff.

I mean, it's not going to hurt to toss em all in, but it's still a little more bitterness. May not notice in some beers. May notice it in others. If that's not a concern to the OP then cool, but it's incorrect to say it doesn't impact the beer.

Well, a difference with a 25 IBU addition would be 5 IBUs, give or take, so I would call that rather insignificant. But if others think it's significant and can taste that, I wouldn't argue with their belief. We all have our own things that we pay strict attention to, but I do not believe I can taste the difference between 23 and 28 IBUs, even though I'm a certified BJCP judge so it's one of those things I wouldn't worry about as a beginning brewer or even as an advanced brewer really.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I wouldn't call it significant by any means. I suppose that's in the "tweaking" realm of significance in my book. But in some beers, while I really doubt I could pick out a 5 IBU increase in and of itself, the balance can change a little bit, and that I've picked up on. But yes, in most cases I wouldn't worry about it unless the balance is delicate, or unless it's a highly hopped beer and a 5 IBU increase becomes a 15 IBU increase.

I'll stop splitting hairs and derailing.

 

[BeerFst]

So were the extra 2.5 gallon containers to temp (170 degrees) or did you dump them in the BK at room temp?..wondering if it really matters?

Sounds like you already decided, but FYI.

They were just at room temp. I've only got the one propane burner, though I guess I could have heated them up on the stove first. Though I think the only thing it would have changed would be the time to get it boiling.

In the past I have just dunked the bag a few times, held it against the side a bit and then tossed the bag. This time I figured since I was doing the near full boil instead, and the jugs had a pour spout, I would try and get some more color and flavor out of the steeping grains. The runnings were clear by the time we finished dumping a container on it, so I'll call that successful.

 

[ACbrewer]

OP - I don't know if you've made this or not yet. With steeping grains you want to stay around 155 and not get to 170. Tannins come out as the temp goes up. they generally aren't generated in the 155 range (although this is all bell curve country so...) But if you get up to 170, you will get them and they are bitter. Tannins as a group are what make tea taste bitter (and give it the brown hue).

I think based on what you've written is they are saying '1. put 2.5 g and grains in pot, turn on heat. 2. After 20 mins, or when heat reaches 170, whichever is first, remove steeping grains. 3. continue with brew (add lme/dme, add water to 5 gallons and boil).'

depending on your setup, I'd proably get 2.5 gallons going on a stove and get to about 150 and then turn off the heat and steep for 20 mins.. In another pot, I'd start up another 2.5 gallons for heat. (so I don't have to wait later). after I pulled the grain, I'd combine both pots with my Malt Extract and go from there.

But there are many ways to do this. With a full boil the main thing is that you 'full boil' the hops. When ever you add that addition water it will cool eveything off, but you have to wait for it either at the beginning or the end.

 

[johnthemann]

OP - I don't know if you've made this or not yet. With steeping grains you want to stay around 155 and not get to 170.

Got it..thats what I will do. I suppose Im just being overly cautious on my first brew. This forum is a wonderful wealth of information and I really appreciate all of the comments!

 

[MB331]

and thats the answer I was looking for. I will steep the grains in separate pot and add to water in my brew kettle at or around 155. Im going to follow the FG recipe for hop additions. I think this will work. Thanks everyone for the responses. I will post as to how it turns out..fingers crossed!!

That's what I normally do and it can knock 20-30 minutes off the brew day. While your kettle is trying to achieve a boil you can steep your grains @155 in the smaller pot. After the steeping period is over throw the steeped water into the kettle and the whole batch will be boiling in no time.