FTSs Brewtech Glycol Chiller

[johnwpowell]

For the time being I am using the ice chest/cooler method until I can find something glycol based for a reasonable price. I bought a 26 qt Ozark high performance cooler that is supposed to keep ice for 4.5 days. I drilled small holes in the lid for cooling lines and have those lines insulated with foam pipe insulation. I use a one gallon frozen milk jug and a one quart Gatorade bottle filled with water and frozen with enough cold water in the cooler to cover the pump. My shed is 80's in the day and 60's overnight. Even with all of this care, and the cooler set to keep the wort at 67F, I am replacing the frozen ice jugs every 12 hours. I haven't had temp drop below 67F, but the ice in the frozen jugs is completely melted within each 12 hour cycle.

This is a high maintenance situation but until I go glycol, I don't have many other options. If anyone has ideas to increase the performance of my current ice chest with frozen bottle system, please let my know how to improve my efficiency.

In for a penny, in for a pound. Go for the glycol or get a full size freezer that will fit the conical.

 

[Dcpcooks]

I've used a full size commercial fridge with mine for a year. It will work great if you have the space.

I'm moving soon and I'll have less space than I currently have so I'm considering selling the fridge and getting the glycol unit to run two conicals.

 

[Morrey]

I've used a full size commercial fridge with mine for a year. It will work great if you have the space.

I'm moving soon and I'll have less space than I currently have so I'm considering selling the fridge and getting the glycol unit to run two conicals.

Yeah, I have a 7 cf and a 5 cf chest freezer going now. Space is a consideration and I use the 5cf fermenting and keg lagering in the 7 cf. I like to build a pipeline this time of year since it seems more folks coming over like a cold beer in the summer. I plan to use the FTSs as a sort of "overflow" system meaning I don't really want to invest $1,000 for a chiller that is only used occasionally. I guess the frozen ice bottle trick will have to work for now. If I watch Craigslist and a glycol chiller comes along at a bargain price...I will snap it up. Ya' never know!

 

[ryanryates]

I have the SS chiller and have been very happy with it. Prior to the glycol unit, I used a stand up freezer with temp controller. I find the chiller is so much more precise and efficient in getting to temp and maintaining. Also, takes up much less room. Currently I am controlling temps on two half barrel chronicals.

I will say that I have been very disappointed with the FTSS control units and have had three go bad on me. I have now built a custom controller using BruControl software and arduino to control the glycol pumps and heaters.

 

[Morrey]

I have the SS chiller and have been very happy with it. Prior to the glycol unit, I used a stand up freezer with temp controller. I find the chiller is so much more precise and efficient in getting to temp and maintaining. Also, takes up much less room. Currently I am controlling temps on two half barrel chronicals.

I will say that I have been very disappointed with the FTSS control units and have had three go bad on me. I have now built a custom controller using BruControl software and arduino to control the glycol pumps and heaters.

I don't know the in's and out's of the system like you do, but would an Inkbird work in place of the FTSs controller?

 

[jready]

I have the SS chiller and have been very happy with it. Prior to the glycol unit, I used a stand up freezer with temp controller. I find the chiller is so much more precise and efficient in getting to temp and maintaining. Also, takes up much less room. Currently I am controlling temps on two half barrel chronicals.

I will say that I have been very disappointed with the FTSS control units and have had three go bad on me. I have now built a custom controller using BruControl software and arduino to control the glycol pumps and heaters.

I had one go bad on me but I will say their customer service is amazing. I let them know and they sent me another one no questions asked.

 

[ryanryates]

I had one go bad on me but I will say their customer service is amazing. I let them know and they sent me another one no questions asked.

I would concur - SS customer service has been great and replacements have been sent out immidiately. The problem is, they need to address the defect and design flaw in their product to ensure dependability in their product. I had a unit go bad during an active fermentation and my temps shot through the roof. This is unacceptable to me. This is why I have built my own control system and scrapped the FTSS.

NOTE: While their electronics are not yet up to par, I am still a huge fan of their stainless work and design. I would highly recommend their fermenters to anyone looking.

 

[ryanryates]

I don't know the in's and out's of the system like you do, but would an Inkbird work in place of the FTSs controller?

I have actually used an inkbird controller with the glycol unit when the SS FTSS controller went bad. You will need to pick up a submersible pump. I used this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01ANITJQY/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Worked great.

 

[Morrey]

An interesting side note since I am currently using ice bottles in a cooler with my FTSs system:

At the height of krausen with US-05, I was replacing frozen water bottles every 12 hours in my Ozark cooler. I was using 3 frozen qt sized Gatorade bottles, and at the end of the 12 hour cycle there was not a bit of ice remaining...in fact I was close to the equilibrium temps of the wort and ice/water bath. I changed my plan and used a full gallon jug of frozen distilled water along with one additional qt Gatorade bottle. At the end of the 12 hour cycle, the water temp was cooler than before (maybe due to the ice mass in the gallon jug?) but no ice remained.

I am nearing the end of week one in primary, BO tube activity has really slowed and SG is 1.015. Starting at 1.040 I figure I will drop a few more points in week 2 but much more slowly now. Point of all of this is my new understanding of the exothermic heat reaction the yeast is causing in the fermenter. My water bottles are maybe 1/3 frozen now at the end of the 12 hour cycle. My outside ambient temps have remained very stable so the only variable is the heat produced by the yeast inside the fermenter.

I have been aware of exothermic heat all along, but by using ATC's in freezers, I was not in close touch with the impact the fermentation was having on internal temps. Given this hands-on experience with the FTSs and ice bottle method, I have a newfound appreciation of the whole exothermic process. Sometimes the "manual" method shows us things we learn from that freezers and glycol chillers don't expose as readily. Always discovering, always learning.

 

[bruhaha]

Very interesting observation. Looking at the way your ice is lasting longer, I'll bet you may only have to replace every 24 hours once you near fermentation end. Would you be so kind to report this back?

 

[Morrey]

I have actually used an inkbird controller with the glycol unit when the SS FTSS controller went bad. You will need to pick up a submersible pump. I used this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01ANITJQY/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Worked great.

Thanks. I'd figured that the DC pump with the FTSs controller system would have to be replaced with an AC pump to be compatible with the Inkbird. Those small pumps are relatively inexpensive at Lowes or Home Depot locally or Amazon Prime.

Very interesting observation. Looking at the way your ice is lasting longer, I'll bet you may only have to replace every 24 hours once you near fermentation end. Would you be so kind to report this back?

I'll post back how my ice bottles are hanging in there now that krausen has dropped.

 

[Einberger1]

Does anyone use a saltwater solution inside of their frozen water bottles instead of straight water? Since saltwater has a lower freezing point, it would seem to make sense that they would be more efficient.

 

[Dcpcooks]

Does anyone use a saltwater solution inside of their frozen water bottles instead of straight water? Since saltwater has a lower freezing point, it would seem to make sense that they would be more efficient.

I've not seen that done for brewing. It's pretty common in commercial kitchens for use with sousvide quick chilling. You need a fairly large amount of salt to get below 28 degrees.

For brewing people use food grade glycol cut anywhere between 33% and 50% with distilled water. Duda diesel sells it by the gallon. I've been using it for several years without any issues. I change it out every few years.

 

[mongoose33]

For the time being I am using the ice chest/cooler method until I can find something glycol based for a reasonable price. I bought a 26 qt Ozark high performance cooler that is supposed to keep ice for 4.5 days. I drilled small holes in the lid for cooling lines and have those lines insulated with foam pipe insulation. I use a one gallon frozen milk jug and a one quart Gatorade bottle filled with water and frozen with enough cold water in the cooler to cover the pump. My shed is 80's in the day and 60's overnight. Even with all of this care, and the cooler set to keep the wort at 67F, I am replacing the frozen ice jugs every 12 hours. I haven't had temp drop below 67F, but the ice in the frozen jugs is completely melted within each 12 hour cycle.

This is a high maintenance situation but until I go glycol, I don't have many other options. If anyone has ideas to increase the performance of my current ice chest with frozen bottle system, please let my know how to improve my efficiency.

Do you have room in that shed for a small refrigerator? I don't know a lot about using these mechanical methods of cooling, but couldn't you, with a small refrigerator, put your water in the refrigerator, run lines from it to the fermenter, and use the fridge to keep the water cool instead of having to swap out water bottles all the time?


You'd have to ensure the fermenter was well-insulated so that the heat produced by the fridge didn't just go to warming the fermenter back up, but a simple insulated box made of 2" thick foam insulation would do the trick.

Just a little thinking out loud....

 

[Morrey]

Do you have room in that shed for a small refrigerator? I don't know a lot about using these mechanical methods of cooling, but couldn't you, with a small refrigerator, put your water in the refrigerator, run lines from it to the fermenter, and use the fridge to keep the water cool instead of having to swap out water bottles all the time?


You'd have to ensure the fermenter was well-insulated so that the heat produced by the fridge didn't just go to warming the fermenter back up, but a simple insulated box made of 2" thick foam insulation would do the trick.

Just a little thinking out loud....

I had originally thought a dorm fridge would keep a water reservoir cold enough to do the job. I asked one poster if this would work and was told it would not cool the water enough to handle the job. He had bent the freezer coils down into a reservoir which did the job he said.

Of course we may hear from someone else who may say this could potentially work just using a water reservoir inside the fridge. Don't know until I try, but hate to drill holes in a dorm fridge only to find out its a no-go.

 

[johnwpowell]

I had originally thought a dorm fridge would keep a water reservoir cold enough to do the job. I asked one poster if this would work and was told it would not cool the water enough to handle the job. He had bent the freezer coils down into a reservoir which did the job he said.

Of course we may hear from someone else who may say this could potentially work just using a water reservoir inside the fridge. Don't know until I try, but hate to drill holes in a dorm fridge only to find out its a no-go.

My guess would be great for ales but not for lagers and cold crashing

 

[mongoose33]

I had originally thought a dorm fridge would keep a water reservoir cold enough to do the job. I asked one poster if this would work and was told it would not cool the water enough to handle the job. He had bent the freezer coils down into a reservoir which did the job he said.

Of course we may hear from someone else who may say this could potentially work just using a water reservoir inside the fridge. Don't know until I try, but hate to drill holes in a dorm fridge only to find out its a no-go.

I'm questioning this guy's experience, for this reason: a lot of people take the slightly larger dorm-sized refrigerators (the ones that are taller than they are wide), and turn them into ferm chambers by gluing a collar on the front to provide extra depth, and attaching the door to the collar. Just like we do with chest freezers to make keezers, except it's vertical instead of horizontal.

People have had success using those--which suggests to me that there is enough cooling power in there to offset the exothermic action of the yeast. Is it enough to bring it down to 50 degrees for a lager? I suspect so, *if* the lines and fermenter and such are properly insulated so there are minimal losses through those areas.

And if one is not quite sure of the capacity of one of those little fridges, one could get a small 5-cu-foot freezer and use that instead.

Just some thinkin' out loud.

 

[Morrey]

I'm questioning this guy's experience, for this reason: a lot of people take the slightly larger dorm-sized refrigerators (the ones that are taller than they are wide), and turn them into ferm chambers by gluing a collar on the front to provide extra depth, and attaching the door to the collar. Just like we do with chest freezers to make keezers, except it's vertical instead of horizontal.

People have had success using those--which suggests to me that there is enough cooling power in there to offset the exothermic action of the yeast. Is it enough to bring it down to 50 degrees for a lager? I suspect so, *if* the lines and fermenter and such are properly insulated so there are minimal losses through those areas.

And if one is not quite sure of the capacity of one of those little fridges, one could get a small 5-cu-foot freezer and use that instead.

Just some thinkin' out loud.

The wife has a small dorm fridge at her office that will freeze contents if the rheostat is turned down too low. She has to be careful when putting things like salads in it (high water content) due to the freezing factor. I could always turn a dorm fridge down low and see if a water bath will freeze. If it does I can add a small amount of glycol to control the freezing level of the water.

I know I decided not to drill in the side of my chest freezer for an external CO2 tank due to the likelihood of hitting a coil. Anyone got any ideas if the small dorm fridge is safe to drill in the side, or are there coils to avoid similar to a chest freezer?

 

[mongoose33]

The wife has a small dorm fridge at her office that will freeze contents if the rheostat is turned down too low. She has to be careful when putting things like salads in it (high water content) due to the freezing factor. I could always turn a dorm fridge down low and see if a water bath will freeze. If it does I can add a small amount of glycol to control the freezing level of the water.

I know I decided not to drill in the side of my chest freezer for an external CO2 tank due to the likelihood of hitting a coil. Anyone got any ideas if the small dorm fridge is safe to drill in the side, or are there coils to avoid similar to a chest freezer?

I decided to do a little google-foo on this topic, and ran across an interesting article on minfridges. The guy said that some have the cooling coils on one side and not the other. Hmmm....I said.

I have a mini fridge in my office and I felt the sides when it was running. Both were warm, but then I decided to check the back.....cool!

So the condenser coils in mine are in the sides. Don't know what yours is, but here's another possibility: i see these things for sale on Craigslist all the time. I just checked and there were dorm fridges (you need to search for "dorm fridge" as well as "mini fridge") for $20 and $25.

You may be able to operate on one, i.e., take off the skin and SEE where the coils are. And if not that, plug it in, feel where it warms (indicators of the coils operating), and then drill somewhere else.

I think the risk/reward is quite high if you can get a cheapo minifridge and experiment with it. It's actually something I'm thinking about doing.

 

[Morrey]

I did a CL search in my area and the dorm fridges came in around $75 or more. I expect folks selling items do some checking to see what the going price is to set theirs accordingly.

I really think this is the way to go for economy sakes. Trading frozen water bottles twice per day is a bit tiring for a 2 week period. It works but a fridge certainly would be a nice solution.

 

[Metzen]

I did a CL search in my area and the dorm fridges came in around $75 or more. I expect folks selling items do some checking to see what the going price is to set theirs accordingly.



I really think this is the way to go for economy sakes. Trading frozen water bottles twice per day is a bit tiring for a 2 week period. It works but a fridge certainly would be a nice solution.

I am planning to go this route. I'll find a dorm fridge with a freezer compartment and bend the freezer coils into a glycol reservoir. It will take me a few weeks as I am currently traveling but will revert back with initial findings when I have them.

 

[mongoose33]

I did a CL search in my area and the dorm fridges came in around $75 or more. I expect folks selling items do some checking to see what the going price is to set theirs accordingly.

I really think this is the way to go for economy sakes. Trading frozen water bottles twice per day is a bit tiring for a 2 week period. It works but a fridge certainly would be a nice solution.

Geez, that's bizarre. You can get a new one from ChinaMart for under $80. Here's one for $20:

https://cedarrapids.craigslist.org/app/6136226603.html

Another for $25:

https://cedarrapids.craigslist.org/app/6104373263.html

Of course, they're a little far away from you.....

 

[PenguinChillers]

You could just use a aquarium chiller. Dont know if you could cold crash with it.

I wouldn't recommend an aquarium chiller unless you are staying above 40F-50F. Due to all of the request from the brewing market we developed and are now launching a glycol chiller that has a higher cooling capacity than the SS chiller and at a lower cost.

 

[PenguinChillers]

I wouldn't recommend an aquarium chiller unless you are staying above 40F-50F. Due to all of the request from the brewing market we developed and are now launching a glycol chiller that has a higher cooling capacity than the SS chiller and at a lower cost.

coupon "preorder" for $50 off, valid for the next few days

 

[Morrey]

I wouldn't recommend an aquarium chiller unless you are staying above 40F-50F. Due to all of the request from the brewing market we developed and are now launching a glycol chiller that has a higher cooling capacity than the SS chiller and at a lower cost.

Excellent! Being this is 1/2 hp motor compared to similar units offering 1/6 or 1/3 hp, this may be a huge winner. Any idea of shipping costs yet...29532?

 

[Metzen]

I wouldn't recommend an aquarium chiller unless you are staying above 40F-50F. Due to all of the request from the brewing market we developed and are now launching a glycol chiller that has a higher cooling capacity than the SS chiller and at a lower cost.

Curious. Are you referring to the below or a new product yet to be launched? As a hobbiest I just can't get myself to put down more than ~$300-400 (definitely not 800-1k) on a chiller alone when you also need the rest of the system to put it to use.

I've always found it strange that these systems cant be found cheaper when you have AC and other appliances that seem to have the right cooling capability at fractions of the cost - just not in the right form factor for brewing. What am I missing? I'm very open to being educated



http://www.penguinchillers.com/product/12-hp-glycol-bath-chiller/

 

[PenguinChillers]

Coil design and operating pressures is the main thing that will vary between a aquarium chiller and a glycol chiller. Aquarium chillers are typically going after 50F-80F temps, and that's a different setup than trying to reach 5F.

As for the cost, I'm sure if there was a larger market and the sell through rates were higher the price would come down since businesses could scale. The AC market is exponentially larger. We are a small family owned business, our operating cost are going to naturally be higher per unit than if we were some mega conglomerate.

 

[PenguinChillers]

excellent! Being this is 1/2 hp motor compared to similar units offering 1/6 or 1/3 hp, this may be a huge winner. Any idea of shipping costs yet...29532?

$59.99

 

[Metzen]

Coil design and operating pressures is the main thing that will vary between a aquarium chiller and a glycol chiller. Aquarium chillers are typically going after 50F-80F temps, and that's a different setup than trying to reach 5F.

As for the cost, I'm sure if there was a larger market and the sell through rates were higher the price would come down since businesses could scale. The AC market is exponentially larger. We are a small family owned business, our operating cost are going to naturally be higher per unit than if we were some mega conglomerate.

That's what I assumed but appreciate the response. I am a free market guy so a perfectly valid response Cheers.

 

[boasist]

$59.99

This all looks great but the coupon is dead now. How about these few items?

Warranty?
Digital or analog control panel?
Glycol to water ratio?
Does the reservoir top already come with the hoses for in the tank?

Thanks again.