Clone Beer Founder's Breakfast Stout Clone

[mmacdon3]

Great plan. Whole beans is the way to go with coffee additions.
I'd use cacao nibs with some vanilla to round out the milk chocolate character as opposed to cocoa powder. Do the powder at flameout too though if you want a very chocolatey beer

Are you saying to nix the 4oz cacao powder @ 5min and instead use the cacao nibs/vanilla at 5min?

 

[m00ps]

no im saying nix the powder at 5min and do a addition of nibs and vanilla to the fermentor instead. I've found it works better and keeps the chocolate flavor longer

 

[mmacdon3]

no im saying nix the powder at 5min and do a addition of nibs and vanilla to the fermentor instead. I've found it works better and keeps the chocolate flavor longer

Ok gotcha...appreciate the advice. So just to be clear you aren't recommending any chocolate additions (chocolate/nibs/cacao powder) during the boil, but to get the chocolate flavor from the cacao nib/vanilla primary addition? With the option of adding cacao powder @5 min if you want more of a chocolate bomb

This is what I'm leaning towards tomorrow.
-At ~5-10min left in boil add 1.5 oz bittersweet bakers chocolate and 1.5 oz of cacao powder
-add 2 vanilla beans/ 4oz cacao nibs in primary 7 days before bottling
-add 4oz whole Sumatra beans 4 days before bottling

 

[m00ps]

Yup, youll get a good amount of chocolate character from the malts, but those primary additions put it over the top. Sounds like a good plan

You may want to consider using a muslin bag or something to contain the beans and the nibs. I've sucked some up into my siphoning tube before and it was a PITA

 

[mmacdon3]

Quick update on how my brew day went. Undershot the OG by a lot....ended up at 1.072. Everything else went perfect from maintaining mash temps to the boil and additions...just really disappointed on how poor my efficiency was. I should have been prepared and added some sugar to boost the OG but I guess it's too late for that.

Right now it's still bubbling but starting to slow down. One thing that's strange is that despite vigorous fermentation there is absolutely no krausen. After seeing a lot of similar posts in this thread I assume it's because of the oils in the cacao powder/bittersweet bakers chocolate that is causing that.

Oh well hopefully it turns out delicious...just wish it was going to be a bit higher ABV

 

[pwortiz]

Quick update on how my brew day went. Undershot the OG by a lot....ended up at 1.072. Everything else went perfect from maintaining mash temps to the boil and additions...just really disappointed on how poor my efficiency was. I should have been prepared and added some sugar to boost the OG but I guess it's too late for that.

Right now it's still bubbling but starting to slow down. One thing that's strange is that despite vigorous fermentation there is absolutely no krausen. After seeing a lot of similar posts in this thread I assume it's because of the oils in the cacao powder/bittersweet bakers chocolate that is causing that.

Oh well hopefully it turns out delicious...just wish it was going to be a bit higher ABV

Was this a "sudden" drop in your efficiency? For some reason, mine has plummeted from ~80% to barely 60% for 3 batches in a row. Not sure what the heck has been going on.

But, FWIW, the beer may just be easier to drink good luck!

 

[m00ps]

yeah that's why I always was afraid of using actual chocolate due to the cocoa butter used. I've done cocoa powder before, but it barely has any fats. As long as the gravity keeps dropping looks like its fermenting OK

 

[mmacdon3]

Was this a "sudden" drop in your efficiency? For some reason, mine has plummeted from ~80% to barely 60% for 3 batches in a row. Not sure what the heck has been going on.

But, FWIW, the beer may just be easier to drink good luck!

I've been getting around 70% lately but for this beer I didn't have the homebrew shop double mill the grains like I usually do and also this was my first all grain recipe with a large grain bill so efficiency probably dropped a good bit because of that too.

I'm surprised the 1 ounce of bittersweet chocolate caused zero krausen to form..didn't think that was a lot.

m00ps---As far as the muslin bag goes...when I use that to toss in the vanilla beans/cacao nibs, will that just float on the surface the whole time? Will the flavor still be able spread throughout the beer?

 

[sweetcell]

I should have been prepared and added some sugar to boost the OG but I guess it's too late for that.

why do you say that? sugar can be added at any time. even after primary is done (it's what you're doing when you bottle prime).

 

[cantrell00]

I brewed the base recipe without any chocolate or coffee additions in the kettle.

I fermented for 3 weeks in primary. Racked to secondary.

3 days on baked cacao nibs

Rough crush of 3 oz whole sumatra coffee beans in a muslin mag for 2 days.

Then another addition of 2 oz of cacoa nibs for another two days.

2 total weeks in secondary & racked to keg. 1.091/1.028

I naturally conditioned a gallon of the base recipe prior to the chocolate & coffee additions too. It is a really good RIS in it's own right.

 

[m00ps]

I've been getting around 70% lately but for this beer I didn't have the homebrew shop double mill the grains like I usually do and also this was my first all grain recipe with a large grain bill so efficiency probably dropped a good bit because of that too.

I'm surprised the 1 ounce of bittersweet chocolate caused zero krausen to form..didn't think that was a lot.

m00ps---As far as the muslin bag goes...when I use that to toss in the vanilla beans/cacao nibs, will that just float on the surface the whole time? Will the flavor still be able spread throughout the beer?

The flavor still gets in there. I've had bags sink and some float, but either way, it seems to get saturated with beer. Its not like a bag of whole hops floating where half dont even get wet...

 

[ptran86]

Looking to get some feedback/comment/advise.

I brewed this last year and it was a complete failure due to improper capping (capper was broken). All the bottles turned our flat and tasted like soy sauce.

I'm planning on brewing this again this year(summer?). And was thinking of replacing the coffee with vanilla. I'm not a big fan of coffee stouts.

What does everyone think? Do you think it will turn out good? If anyone have an experience with using vanilla pods please chim in. I'm thinking of either putting the vanilla pods in the fermenter for the entire duration of the fermentation process. Or I could soaked them in a jar with some vodka and then addeded prior to bottling. How much vinally pods should I use for a 5gal batch? I'm a big vanilla stout fans so I would like for it to be a little vanilla forward.

Again advise/comments are welcome.

 

[m00ps]

Looking to get some feedback/comment/advise.

I brewed this last year and it was a complete failure due to improper capping (capper was broken). All the bottles turned our flat and tasted like soy sauce.

I'm planning on brewing this again this year(summer?). And was thinking of replacing the coffee with vanilla. I'm not a big fan of coffee stouts.

What does everyone think? Do you think it will turn out good? If anyone have an experience with using vanilla pods please chim in. I'm thinking of either putting the vanilla pods in the fermenter for the entire duration of the fermentation process. Or I could soaked them in a jar with some vodka and then addeded prior to bottling. How much vinally pods should I use for a 5gal batch? I'm a big vanilla stout fans so I would like for it to be a little vanilla forward.

Again advise/comments are welcome.

I use vanilla in every sweet beer or chocolate beer I've made. 2 beans is good for me to round out the flavor, but I'd do 4 or 5 for 5gal if you want a "Vanilla" beer.

Chop them up, toss them in a bit of water, boil for 1min, let cool and dump them right into the primary. Vodka's an option, but I find the small boil extract plenty of vanilla flavor without the waiting time for them to soak

 

[ptran86]

I use vanilla in every sweet beer or chocolate beer I've made. 2 beans is good for me to round out the flavor, but I'd do 4 or 5 for 5gal if you want a "Vanilla" beer.

Chop them up, toss them in a bit of water, boil for 1min, let cool and dump them right into the primary. Vodka's an option, but I find the small boil extract plenty of vanilla flavor without the waiting time for them to soak

I was thinking of soaking them then add to the fermentator because I was afraid the 6 weeks of fermenetation wouldn't be long enough. I seen a couple place that says you need to soak the vanilla pods for 2-3 months before adding them to your beer.

Does it matter how much water you boil with the vanilla pods?

 

[m00ps]

That 2-3 month thing doesnt sound quite right...

I just use enough water to cover the beans and to prevent scorching them in my flask, so like 100ml

 

[ptran86]

That 2-3 month thing doesnt sound quite right...

I just use enough water to cover the beans and to prevent scorching them in my flask, so like 100ml

He soaked them in vodka for 2-3 months then add directly to the beer right before drinking.

 

[DonnieZ]

Anyone else have this beer turn out acrid?

I just kegged this on Sunday and the flavor just isn't right. Like strong, burnt coffee is what I'm picking up.

I used 2 ounces of Sumatra grounds at flameout, let it finish in primary for 1 month. Went from 1090 to 1026.

Couple weeks ago I racked it into another bucket, the just this last Friday I threw in 1 ounce of Kona grounds as well as 1 ounce of cocoa nibs and kegged it 2 days later.

So far, as I said, the beer tastes of strong, burnt / acrid coffee. This happened when I brewed the KBS clone that came from Zymurgy as well. The recipe is similar, and the coffee profile for both recipes is similar too. With the KBS clone, I added the Kona as a cold press, this time I just tossed the grounds in secondary. I got the grounds from Gloria Jeans if that has any bearing on the matter.

The KBS clone I gave a few months and then just drain poured the keg it was that bad. Unfortunately I'm getting the same types of favors from this beer. The only other nugget I have is that when I went from primary to secondary, I believe the taste I had was much better than this, but it was warmer and a smaller taste.

Super disappointed in both attempts here - FBS and KBS are two of my favorite beers and it seems like I've struck out both times. Especially as these are complex, expensive brews in both cost and time invested.

 

[ptran86]

Anyone else have this beer turn out acrid?

I just kegged this on Sunday and the flavor just isn't right. Like strong, burnt coffee is what I'm picking up.

I used 2 ounces of Sumatra grounds at flameout, let it finish in primary for 1 month. Went from 1090 to 1026.

Couple weeks ago I racked it into another bucket, the just this last Friday I threw in 1 ounce of Kona grounds as well as 1 ounce of cocoa nibs and kegged it 2 days later.

So far, as I said, the beer tastes of strong, burnt / acrid coffee. This happened when I brewed the KBS clone that came from Zymurgy as well. The recipe is similar, and the coffee profile for both recipes is similar too. With the KBS clone, I added the Kona as a cold press, this time I just tossed the grounds in secondary. I got the grounds from Gloria Jeans if that has any bearing on the matter.

The KBS clone I gave a few months and then just drain poured the keg it was that bad. Unfortunately I'm getting the same types of favors from this beer. The only other nugget I have is that when I went from primary to secondary, I believe the taste I had was much better than this, but it was warmer and a smaller taste.

Super disappointed in both attempts here - FBS and KBS are two of my favorite beers and it seems like I've struck out both times. Especially as these are complex, expensive brews in both cost and time invested.

Could it be to new so the coffee is still strong? Mine was ruined due to loss of carbonation (bad capper). I found a leftover bottle maybe 3-4 months old and it actually tasted pretty tasty besides the fact that it was flat.

 

[cantrell00]

Anyone else have this beer turn out acrid?

I just kegged this on Sunday and the flavor just isn't right. Like strong, burnt coffee is what I'm picking up.

I used 2 ounces of Sumatra grounds at flameout, let it finish in primary for 1 month. Went from 1090 to 1026.

Couple weeks ago I racked it into another bucket, the just this last Friday I threw in 1 ounce of Kona grounds as well as 1 ounce of cocoa nibs and kegged it 2 days later.

So far, as I said, the beer tastes of strong, burnt / acrid coffee. This happened when I brewed the KBS clone that came from Zymurgy as well. The recipe is similar, and the coffee profile for both recipes is similar too. With the KBS clone, I added the Kona as a cold press, this time I just tossed the grounds in secondary. I got the grounds from Gloria Jeans if that has any bearing on the matter.

The KBS clone I gave a few months and then just drain poured the keg it was that bad. Unfortunately I'm getting the same types of favors from this beer. The only other nugget I have is that when I went from primary to secondary, I believe the taste I had was much better than this, but it was warmer and a smaller taste.

Super disappointed in both attempts here - FBS and KBS are two of my favorite beers and it seems like I've struck out both times. Especially as these are complex, expensive brews in both cost and time invested.

Same exact issue I had ... I brewed it again with only coffee beans in secondary. No more burnt flavor like you described.

 

[rideincircles]

My first batch of this was very astringent and the coffee flavor hasn't ever gone away after a year and a half. Some bottles have come out completely amazing, while some have been lackluster. I used sumatra in the boil and let it sit in primary for 6 weeks and used cold brewed kona at bottling.

My current version I am brewing for Burning Man went from 1.112-1.033 and I added no coffee and just a little chocolate powder in the boil. I racked it to secondary with 4 oz of cocoa nibs, 1/2 oz of bourbon soaked oak chips and 2 vanilla beans. I will probably add 3-4 oz of sumatra beans to dry hop with 3-5 days before kegging. Right now I am in no rush, so it will sit on the nibs and stuff for a few weeks. It was awesome without the coffee. Will see how this turns out. I may save it for when the man burns. Hopefully I can make a beer cart to serve it from.

 

[m00ps]

Yeah the above few posts are why I try to stress whole bean additions in the fermentor over cold press and especially over late boil/flameout additions. Every time I've done anything other than whole bean, the coffee flavor has either faded or gotten very metallic and astringent later on. Not a very good characteristic for a type of beer that you want to age...

 

[FatsSchindee]

I did a double chocolate stout (not this particular recipe, but similar), and added cold-pressed coffee at bottling. Tasted great for about a month, and then it started getting the acrid, metallic flavor going on after that. I think I'll go with the the whole beans in secondary (or just after fermentation dies down in primary) next time...

 

[ptran86]

Can anyone suggest how I would scale this down to a 3gal or 1 gal batch?

Thanks

 

[MMJfan]

I did a double chocolate stout (not this particular recipe, but similar), and added cold-pressed coffee at bottling. Tasted great for about a month, and then it started getting the acrid, metallic flavor going on after that. I think I'll go with the the whole beans in secondary (or just after fermentation dies down in primary) next time...

I've brewed this recipe from the OP twice now. The first time, I used Starbucks Christmas Blend and the 2nd time I used Starbucks Espresso Roast.

When you are adding your grounds of coffee at flame out are you leaving them in your primary? When I make this beer, I use a hop sock and add the chocolate and ground coffee in the hop sock and then I remove the hop sock when the beer is chilled and ready for racking to my fermenting bucket.

I also use cold pressed Espresso Roast that I add to my bottling bucket when I'm ready to bottle and I have never had any issues with off flavors from the coffee.

 

[mmacdon3]

I just added 4oz of roasted cacao nibs and 2 vanilla beans to primary. I wish I would have racked to secondary first because it looks like everything sunk...kind of was expecting them to float.

Guess there's not much I can do now...hopefully still get some flavor out of the cacao/vanilla. Will be adding whole coffee beans in about 5 days or so.

 

[sejasba]

I made this about a month or so ago. Did everything per the recipe, but did not do any cold pressed coffee at "bottling". I keg, so I moved from primary to keg after 2 weeks and let it secondary in the keg for another 2 weeks. Put it on CO2 over the weekend. Just tried a small sample and it tastes pretty good. Definitely get the coffee and chocolate. At this point I'm thinking adding cold pressed coffee prior to putting it on gas would have made the coffee taste a bit too overpowering. We'll see how it changes over time.

 

[FatsSchindee]

I've brewed this recipe from the OP twice now. The first time, I used Starbucks Christmas Blend and the 2nd time I used Starbucks Espresso Roast.



When you are adding your grounds of coffee at flame out are you leaving them in your primary? When I make this beer, I use a hop sock and add the chocolate and ground coffee in the hop sock and then I remove the hop sock when the beer is chilled and ready for racking to my fermenting bucket.



I also use cold pressed Espresso Roast that I add to my bottling bucket when I'm ready to bottle and I have never had any issues with off flavors from the coffee.

I didn't do this recipe - I did a double chocolate stout (Austin Homebrew Supply recipe) that I added cold pressed coffee to at bottling... so no flameout addition of coffee. It was only my fifth batch ever, so my off flavor could have been something with my process (did a mini mash, using only RO water - maybe my pH was too low from the roast grains?), if it wasn't from the cold pressed coffee at bottling...

I started following this thread when I was making it, so I could get some info on how/when to add the coffee. I do want to try this recipe sometime, as I'm a big fan of the Founder's beer...

 

[paguy]

Well this is going to be boiling away in the kettle this weekend! Have everything but the coffee. Think I'll use whole beans or maybe cruched a little. Also instead of adding the chocolate like the recipe state I think I'll just use 4 oz of the nibs soaked in vodka for 48 hrs like I do for my left hand chocolate stout. It's been said adding it to a fermenting beer will gas off some of the aroma and its worked well for me, and no oils or fat in the beer. Any thought on this before the big day?

 

[cantrell00]

Well this is going to be boiling away in the kettle this weekend! Have everything but the coffee. Think I'll use whole beans or maybe cruched a little. Also instead of adding the chocolate like the recipe state I think I'll just use 4 oz of the nibs soaked in vodka for 48 hrs like I do for my left hand chocolate stout. It's been said adding it to a fermenting beer will gas off some of the aroma and its worked well for me, and no oils or fat in the beer. Any thought on this before the big day?

I wouldn't soak them in vodka. I would roast them @ 350 for 12 minutes & add to secondary in a muslin bag.. 2-3 days to taste. 4 oz

I would add the coffee the same way. 2-3 oz of whole sumatran coffee lightly cracked in a muslin bag, 1-2 days in secondary.

 

[TrickyDick]

But don't (re)roast the coffee beans like the nibs.