We recently finished brewing a batch of http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/115th-dream-hopbursted-ipa-extract-kit.html. After the secondary fermentation was completed we transferred to a pin lock keg for carbonation. Unlike our previous batches, this time we were told not to use the corn sugar as instead we will force carbonate. I was advised to connect to 20 PSI for 2 days, disconnect, release pressure from keg, reconnect 8-10 PSI and she will be perfect. So I did, and was extremely disappointed. The batch appeared very cloudy, and still quite flat. I since have reconnected the keg as of yesterday back to the CO2 at 20 PSI and figured I'd let it carbonate till the end of the week. Do you think that this is enough time? Is 20 PSI too high? Any other suggestions? Thanks again for your time.
Force Carbonation with Kegerator at 20 PSI?
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freisste
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What temperature was it at? 20 psi will not carb well at room temp, but will over carb at serving temp.
Did you shake the keg while under pressure? Shaking will cause the CO2 to more readily go into solution.
My recommendation would be high pressure (20-30) while shaking/rolling for a few minutes, then serving pressure for a week. That should be good.
Good luck.
Did you shake the keg while under pressure? Shaking will cause the CO2 to more readily go into solution.
My recommendation would be high pressure (20-30) while shaking/rolling for a few minutes, then serving pressure for a week. That should be good.
Good luck.
DisturbdChemist
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I dont think 20 is too high. I put my kegs at 20psi for two/three days at serving temperature. Then place at serving pressure for then on out. I havent had a problem yet (though i just started). I'm still tweaking the procedure to work for me. I havent shaken it yet because i'm not in a hurry for the beer to be ready.
I usually hit the keg with 30PSI for 24hrs. Then release pressure set to 12PSI(serving pressure) and in 4-5days have a fairly drinkable carbonated beer.
freisste
Well-Known Member
DisturbdChemist said:
This is probably aimed at my comment, so I will clarify. I meant that 20psi will EVENTUALLY over carb at serving pressure. Good catch.
I hear all the time of people pressurizing well above serving pressure for the first day or two (even above 30psi to initially get some CO2 into solution), then reducing to serving pressure for a few more days. I'm sure it is a fine practice. I didn't mean to say pressuring to 20 would immediately cause over carb issues. Thanks again for clarifying.
It really is temperature dependent.
If I'm in a huge hurry, I'll put the keg in my kegerator at 30 psi for 36 hours, then purge and reset for 12 psi. In three days, it's pretty well carbed but gets better for the next few days.
If I'm not in a hurry, I just set it at 12 psi and wait a week to 10 days.
That's at fridge temperatures (40 degrees).
The beer is cloudy because it's only been sitting a couple of days, and the yeast and other debris in the beer is starting to fall to the bottom. Since the diptube pulls the beer from the bottom, the first glass is cloudy and with debris in it. But if you don't move the keg at all and let it sit a couple more days at a cold temperature, you can pull off 3 ounces out of the faucet and discard it and the rest of the beer should be fine.
If the beer is cold, 36 hours at 30 psi will carb it up. If the beer is warm, it won't.
If I'm in a huge hurry, I'll put the keg in my kegerator at 30 psi for 36 hours, then purge and reset for 12 psi. In three days, it's pretty well carbed but gets better for the next few days.
If I'm not in a hurry, I just set it at 12 psi and wait a week to 10 days.
That's at fridge temperatures (40 degrees).
The beer is cloudy because it's only been sitting a couple of days, and the yeast and other debris in the beer is starting to fall to the bottom. Since the diptube pulls the beer from the bottom, the first glass is cloudy and with debris in it. But if you don't move the keg at all and let it sit a couple more days at a cold temperature, you can pull off 3 ounces out of the faucet and discard it and the rest of the beer should be fine.
If the beer is cold, 36 hours at 30 psi will carb it up. If the beer is warm, it won't.
The kegs are in the kegerator, I need to check the temp but I'd say they are at optimum serving temp.
I did not shake the keg, I treat my beer like my baby, very careful
freisste
Well-Known Member
So you DO or DO NOT shake babies?
Are you trying to have this ready for a party some night or some other time constraint? If no time constraint, leave it at serving temp ad pressure for a couple weeks. It will be ready when it is ready. If you have a deadline, you can increase the pressure, decrease the temp (probably hard to do considering it is already in the kegerator), or shake to speed things up. I think it is preferred to let the beer get to its final carb level and temp on its own, so you can use one of the above methods to get it close to the target volumes of CO2, but once it is close, set the regulator to serving pressure and let it sit.
What temp and pressure are you planning on letting it sit at for serving?
Are you trying to have this ready for a party some night or some other time constraint? If no time constraint, leave it at serving temp ad pressure for a couple weeks. It will be ready when it is ready. If you have a deadline, you can increase the pressure, decrease the temp (probably hard to do considering it is already in the kegerator), or shake to speed things up. I think it is preferred to let the beer get to its final carb level and temp on its own, so you can use one of the above methods to get it close to the target volumes of CO2, but once it is close, set the regulator to serving pressure and let it sit.
What temp and pressure are you planning on letting it sit at for serving?
This ^^^. In my kegerator at 40 degrees, I hook up the keg at 30psi for 36 to 48 hours, purge, reset to serving pressure (12psi) and it is perfectly carbed. It does develop a creamier head the longer it sits at serving, but it is very drinkable in 2 days doing this. As Yooper said, it gets better the longer it sits but it is very well carbed at the 2 day mark. We need more info though. What temp are you setting your keg at 20psi at? Temp is probably the main culprit. As for clarity, it will clear with time.
Great question, but don't shake my beer
I'd like to be able to serve this weekend, and/or disconnect for the weekend (St. Pattys' and all), and reconnect on Sunday to complete any additional carbonation needed. I have a sixtel of Long Ireland Celtic Ale ready to tap for the weekend!
No sure on the temperature yet, need to get a thermometer. But its being served out of a commercial kegerator so I'm going to assume its at optimal serving temp. As far as PSI I was told that between 8-10 PSI is ideal, thoughts?
Here's why we're asking about temperature- the carbonation is temperature dependent.
Here's a chart to show what we mean: http://www.kegerators.com/carbonation-table.php
If your beer is at 31 degrees, 8 psi would work. If your beer is at 45 degrees, 8 psi would mean it's pretty flat.
Normally, 11-12 psi works for most.
This is all so helpful, I really appreciate eveyone's time. Thank you very much, off to the hardware store for a thermometer. Will update as soon as I get an accurate read. Stupid question but I figured I'd ask, is there an optimum temperature I should be aiming for?
+1 what Yooper says about the importance of temperature.
That's a really good question. 38-40*F is a good target.
Next time, with the keg at 38-40*F, try 30psi 24 hrs, 20psi 48 hrs, and then drop to serving pressure a few days (about 10-11psi). No shaking. It also helps of you cold crash the fermenter for the last couple of days before racking to the keg.
That's a really good question. 38-40*F is a good target.
Next time, with the keg at 38-40*F, try 30psi 24 hrs, 20psi 48 hrs, and then drop to serving pressure a few days (about 10-11psi). No shaking. It also helps of you cold crash the fermenter for the last couple of days before racking to the keg.
When I started kegging, I did the shake-n-roll. Don't do it, its not worth it. Yeah, beer is ready in 8 hours, but it is very unreliable. If you want it fast, do what people already posted, I keep mine at 30psi for 24-36 hours and its very close to drinkable and 10x better beer. If you need it at 24 hours, drop the temp below serve temp and raise it back up when carbed. It will flux as it warms, but keep 12psi on it.
You worked hard and waited a good chunk of time to get good beer, don't ruin it by rushing and carbing by rocking. Mine came out foamy as all hell for a good week, you end up re-mixing all the sediment back in and takes forever to clear, and it was over carbed.
You worked hard and waited a good chunk of time to get good beer, don't ruin it by rushing and carbing by rocking. Mine came out foamy as all hell for a good week, you end up re-mixing all the sediment back in and takes forever to clear, and it was over carbed.
I set mine to 30 psi after I purge the head space. I then rock the keg back and forth to force a little more gas in, drop it in the keezer, then let it sit at 30 psi for 3 days. I drop it down to my normal serving pressure of 14 psi and let it roll. I like mine carbed a bit more than most. I keep my keezer at around 42 degrees and use 12ft lines to eliminate foaming.
I don't agree with you on overcarbing. I use the roll method at about 35 psi. After about 5 minutes of this, I release the excess pressure and let it sit at about 15 psi for a day. Then I set it to serving pressure and the carbonation has settled to a good level. The head gets better with time, but the beer is carbonated and very drinkable.
The biggest con of the rolling method is that you will mix more of the sediment back into the beer if it made it into the keg. This is not too much of a problem for me because I usually cold crash my beers for a week (and have a canister filter if I really one good clarity right away). I get very little sediment in my keg to begin with. I will have some haze/yeast for about a week in the keg but this happens whether roll it or not.
Considering that the OP has until this weekend, the best bet would be to set the beer to 30 psi for a few days without rolling and then bring it down. That will allow him to serve it to his friends this weekend and show off what he made.
Ok, sorry for the delay in reply. Fridge is set at 34 Degrees currently. Since Tuesday I have had my batch connected at 20PSI at 34 Degrees. Do we think it is safe to disconnect, release pressure, and hook up at 8-10PSI to test? Any other suggestions? Thanks again!
freisste
Well-Known Member
scripto said:
Assuming the system stabilized, you are at about 3.5-3.6 volumes of CO2. I think it is a little overcarbed (again, if it was in equilibrium) so I'd say release the pressure and go to serving pressure. It may be a little foamy at first.
oy
, yes captain, going out back now. is there anyway to read the carbonation level? i'll keep you posted, i guess its noon somewhere 
I don't agree with you on overcarbing. I use the roll method at about 35 psi. After about 5 minutes of this, I release the excess pressure and let it sit at about 15 psi for a day. Then I set it to serving pressure and the carbonation has settled to a good level. The head gets better with time, but the beer is carbonated and very drinkable.
The biggest con of the rolling method is that you will mix more of the sediment back into the beer if it made it into the keg. This is not too much of a problem for me because I usually cold crash my beers for a week (and have a canister filter if I really one good clarity right away). I get very little sediment in my keg to begin with. I will have some haze/yeast for about a week in the keg but this happens whether roll it or not.
Considering that the OP has until this weekend, the best bet would be to set the beer to 30 psi for a few days without rolling and then bring it down. That will allow him to serve it to his friends this weekend and show off what he made.
Thing about rolling is that its uncontrollable. How do you control the saturation and reproduce it? I used to do the rock and roll method when I started, thought it was the greatest thing ever having beer ready the next day. Then I had a back log (which was beautiful!!) and did everything the "right way" and the beer was crystal clear, the carb was perfect, no foamy pours, no crazy heads... I tried filtering, didn't like that either, don't do that anymore either. I still get sediment even after cold crashing, its how I know my keg is almost empty and it makes me sad.
Glad it works for you. I waited 3-4 weeks, I can wait 24-36 more hours and do it right.
We are in agreement on the 30 for a few days!!
oy
Yes there is, I call it a beer mug
BansheeRider
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She tastes good!
115th Dream Hopbursted IPA
Hello. I am coming in a bit late in the thread. Lots of good info here. I am a noob to kegging also. I am still drinking my first batch. I kegged probably about 2 weeks ago and it's finally clear. It does take a week or so for the beer to clear. Obviously the colder the beer the more crap drops out of suspension. Also when the beer is cold you will have chill haze. Chill haze will go away after about a week, and that's where I'm at now. Unfortunately my beer is half way gone when it's finally clear
To check for chill haze you can poor 1/2 a pint and let it sit over night at room temp. If its clear in the morning then you know it's just chill haze and not cloudy beer. If you have 2 or more kegs you can filter your beer before putting into your kegerator. This will ensure clear beer but some homebrewers do not prefer filtering because it's and extra step in the process and it removes most of the yeast for long term conditioning. If you are brewing light colored beers you can add irish moss or whirlfloc to the last 15 min of the boil. This will aid in clear beer while cold crashing in the keg.
As for force carbing I won't beat a dead horse. What worked for me was 30psi at 36 hours, release keg pressure and reset to serving pressure. I say 36 hrs vs. 24 because the beer was room temp before connecting the gas. If your beer is chilled to 38 degrees before applying gas then 30psi for 24 hrs should be good for most beers.
Your beer does look cloudy in the pic. I'm not sure if it's chill haze or cloudy beer. Either way time will fix it. I bet in a week you will see much improvement
BansheeRider
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If you're not in a rush the "set and forget" method is the best option IMO. Not sure if this chart had been posted yet....http://www.kegerators.com/carbonation-table.php
BansheeRider
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The chart doesn't suggest how many days, but I think most people think 2 weeks is a good basis to start. However since your beer is VERY cold (32 degrees, I like it around 40) it could carb faster, you might be good after 10 days or so. The chart says 32 degrees would be 7-8 psi for about 2.45 volumes of CO2, 2.3-2.5 volumes is about right for most style beers.
Or you can do what I like to do. Which is set to 30 psi for 24 hours (cold beer, 36 hours for room temp beer) purge all the way down and re-set to 10-12 psi (serving pressure). I normally have carbed beer in a few days using this method.
UnrulyGentleman
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Just to clarify, your preferred method goes something like this: rack beer to sanitized keg, hook up CO2 to purge out oxygen and then disconnect CO2, put keg in freezer/fridge to make it cold, once cold hook up CO2 at 30PSI for 24 hours, then after that purge it all out of the keg and re-set at 10-12 PSI? Sorry to sound dumb, just trying to make sure I understand as much of a step-by-step method that people use. Also, what temp is "cold" for your method?
BansheeRider
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I like 38-40 degrees for my beers. Everything you described is correct, that's how I carb my beers. However, I am impatient and prefer to drink my beer ASAP, that's why I upgraded to a kegging system. If you are not in a rush and have a good pipeline going then the "set and forget" method is the best route IMO. This method gives the beer time to clear, age, and equalize in the keg.
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