force carb or natural carb

[noggins]

10 days? Chill the keg in the day, roll it on it's side with gas on 25 for 1 - 2 minutes depending on carb level preference. Next morning bleed gas and set at serving pressure. I'll never do any other way. You can fix an over-carbed beer in a couple days by just releasing the pressure every so often.

Yeh I've seen that method plenty of times by kids on the youtubes, I've also seen enough posts by Yooper and others on here I respect enough to know it's probably not worth the couple of days it might save me. 10 days = TOO SOON! IT'S JUST A BABY! YOU CAN'T DRINK A BABY!!


Relax, don't whine, have a homebrew

 

[Nickyssix]

Here's a bit more about it.

And two of my recipes to give you an idea on how much is used.

A Helles

An Alt

I use a higher percentage than brewers using thicker mashes. There are no concerns about taste as far as I can tell. The Braukaiser looked into this in more detail.

Ok i like it - am going to ask at the LHBS and i'll try your recipe -
Only problem is we dont get German hallertau in New Zealand - Any ideas on what i could replace it with ? Crystal? Mt Hood?

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Ok i like it - am going to ask at the LHBS and i'll try your recipe -
Only problem is we dont get German hallertau in New Zealand - Any ideas on what i could replace it with ? Crystal? Mt Hood?

On your previous question, a kiwi version of acid malt is Gladfield 'sour grapes'.

Wakatu is a NZ version of hallertau and is reportedly interchangeable with the German hallertau.

 

[Gavin C]

Ok i like it - am going to ask at the LHBS and i'll try your recipe -
Only problem is we dont get German hallertau in New Zealand - Any ideas on what i could replace it with ? Crystal? Mt Hood?

That gladfield malt sounds exactly the same. Just a domestic version which will make it a lot cheaper in New Brighton or Christchurch I reckon.

http://www.gladfieldmalt.co.nz/the-malt/

I think any noble hop would work as a substitute for the Hallertauer. German if you can get them but domestic varieties should work fine. At least I'd imagine they would.

Here's a useful page about subbing hops.

Let me know if you brew it.

 

[Nickyssix]

On your previous question, a kiwi version of acid malt is Gladfield 'sour grapes'.

Wakatu is a NZ version of hallertau and is reportedly interchangeable with the German hallertau.

Brilliant thanks ! Gladfields are really good maltsters.
But no, Wakatu is the Hallertau strain but when grown here its nothing like it - bitterness around 7-8 -and doesnt have the noble thing going on at all. just doesn't do the job. I use Crystal hops to substitute german beers but we do get Saaz imported which is a Noble but ive always wanted hallertau mittelfrüh or hersbrucker.
We do have some amazing local hops (Riwaka, Motueka, Nelson Sauvin) so i shouldnt complain but...

 

[Nickyssix]

Let me know if you brew it.

Cheers yes i will brew it! Next brew.

 

[HomeDrewBrew]

10 days? Chill the keg in the day, roll it on it's side with gas on 25 for 1 - 2 minutes depending on carb level preference. Next morning bleed gas and set at serving pressure. I'll never do any other way. You can fix an over-carbed beer in a couple days by just releasing the pressure every so often.

Im a little confused on the different ways to carb so can someone lay it out.
Say once you transfer the wort to keg,Do i want to chill it first and hit it with C02 then relieve pressure then fridge it?. how much in this case?leave it for 24-36hrs relieve pressure or just hit with 25psi, roll,leave gas left on or off then bleed?,then chill and set to serve temp?.
Maybe im making it way harder then it is!.
Thanks

 

[Yooper]

I have been told (and it makes sense from the chemistry/biology perspective) that carbing with sugar will let the yeast remove any residual dissolved oxygen that got into the beer while transfering.

As you are probably aware, oxygen is *bad* after fermentation has completed. This is supposed to be extra important with hop-forward beers (APA, IPA, etc), as oxygen not only causes the oxidized-beer flavor, but also reduces the shelf-stability of the hop flavors/aromas.

That isn't correct, because yeast will indeed uptake some oxygen if present during the carbonation- but you can't "erase" the affect of already bound oxygen by yeast activity. It might mitigate any damage from oxygen in the headspace of the bottle, but it won't 'erase' oxidation from being transferred before that.

Winemakers will use sulfites when transferring, since sulfite will bind to the wine so that oxygen can't. Of course, most home winemakers will rack several times over the course of the wine's life so it's extra important to prevent oxidation from the first racking.

 

[andrewmaixner]

I have been told (and it makes sense from the chemistry/biology perspective) that carbing with sugar will let the yeast remove any residual dissolved oxygen that got into the beer while transfering.

As you are probably aware, oxygen is *bad* after fermentation has completed. This is supposed to be extra important with hop-forward beers (APA, IPA, etc), as oxygen not only causes the oxidized-beer flavor, but also reduces the shelf-stability of the hop flavors/aromas.

That isn't correct, because yeast will indeed uptake some oxygen if present during the carbonation- but you can't "erase" the affect of already bound oxygen by yeast activity. It might mitigate any damage from oxygen in the headspace of the bottle, but it won't 'erase' oxidation from being transferred before that.
...

I didn't think I implied anything about erasure or rolling-back of oxidation. In any case, yes, you definitely can't undo oxidation once it has happened. Technically, I guess, oxidation by DO is a process over time, and so some is almost inevitable, and yeast can't uptake O2 until it is dissolved, and it will dissolve from headspace after bottling unless purged.

 

[Homercidal]

I've used all methods of carbing and I can say that I don't prefer any one of them over the others in general.

I usually set and forget if I am not in a hurry to pour that beer.

I usually burst carb when I'm in a hurry.

I've primed with sugar in the keg when my kegerator doesn't have have room for that keg and I can let it sit at room temp and carb.

About the only differences between them is amount of stirred up gunk that makes the beer cloudy, and there are ways around that if you have kegging equipment and the time to do it. And personally I am not pro-Reinheitsgebot in this day and age. It was a political and financial law that was made to look like a purity law. I CAN, however, appreciate German brewing methods and their beer nonetheless.

Bottom line, "It's all good, baby!"

 

[Iseneye]

Brilliant thanks ! Gladfields are really good maltsters.
But no, Wakatu is the Hallertau strain but when grown here its nothing like it - bitterness around 7-8 -and doesnt have the noble thing going on at all. just doesn't do the job. I use Crystal hops to substitute german beers but we do get Saaz imported which is a Noble but ive always wanted hallertau mittelfrüh or hersbrucker.
We do have some amazing local hops (Riwaka, Motueka, Nelson Sauvin) so i shouldnt complain but...

I made a german pilsner with Pacifica and it was excellent. I just checked Brewshop.co.nz and note they don't import Hallertau, just Tettnang which has a different character.

 

[Nickyssix]

I made a german pilsner with Pacifica and it was excellent. I just checked Brewshop.co.nz and note they don't import Hallertau, just Tettnang which has a different character.

Yep thats right we have tettnang and saaz but no hally and dont think spalter either. Pacifica you say ? Ok I will have a look at that one cheers for the info.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Hallerta...R-Home-Brew-/271746931220?hash=item3f45611a14

Posts to NZ. Postage is a bit much for 50g, but not too bad for a bulk purchase.

 

[Pkrd]

Yep thats right we have tettnang and saaz but no hally and dont think spalter either. Pacifica you say ? Ok I will have a look at that one cheers for the info.

Wakatu is NZ Hallertau. Close enough?

 

[kombat]

From what I read, bottle carbonation produces a smoother carbonation. Kegging introduces carbonic acid which creates a harsher feeling.

Carbonic acid is simply CO2 in solution. Its molecular formula is H2CO3, which breaks down into H2O and CO2 (water and carbon dioxide). Anything containing dissolved CO2 in water contains carbonic acid, regardless of how that carbonation was achieved.

 

[Nickyssix]

Wakatu is NZ Hallertau. Close enough?

Yea it is Hallertau - but its results in a really different profile when grown here- compared to the imported noble hop. Its bitterness rating is between 7-8 AA instead of being around 3-5AA and really tastes different.. even the American Hallertau tastes different i believe

 

[MattyIce]

Kegging is easier for me. It carbs faster, but the beers usually benefit sitting for a few weeks anyhow. I REALLY like that I can share beer with the uninitiated without having to explain yeast sediment of naturally-carbed beer.

 

[corbmonster]

I think anyone that has keged will tell you that kegging (and bottling from kegging if you want to do that) are much easier than using priming sugar and bottling. That has been my experience. No bottle bombs. Smaller chance for contamination. Not as messy. Not as much to clean up. Twice a fast. It might be slightly more expensive (if you use a larger tank it is cheaper), but it it definitely worth it to me.

That having been said, I do still bottle prime occasionally. But it is awfully rare.

 

[FlyDoctor]

In England, only bottle conditioned beers (other than those on cask) can be called "Real Ale" seems silly to me as I'm not sure there is a difference in taste

 

[corbmonster]

In England, only bottle conditioned beers (other than those on cask) can be called "Real Ale" seems silly to me as I'm not sure there is a difference in taste

I've only head people say there is no difference in taste.

 

[pablosbrewing]

In England, only bottle conditioned beers (other than those on cask) can be called "Real Ale" seems silly to me as I'm not sure there is a difference in taste

"Real Ale" is cask conditioned, nothing to do with bottles at all.

Didn't CAMRA require natural conditioning in the cask?

 

[noggins]

I'd like to change my vote. Force carb is awesome. Making delicious beer ready to go a couple hours after kegging is priceless, I'll gladly pay the extra couple bucks worth of co2 for that.