Foam and Sticky Tap

[yo1dog]

I was having some problem with foam so I was messing with the temperature settings. At one point I accidentally let my beer get too cold (~30ºF) and even had little pieces of ice in my beer.

I don't know if it is related but now my left tap can be very hard to open (push the handle back). Almost like it is very sticky or something. Also, the beer from the left tap is almost all foam while the beer from the right is about half.

The temperature controller keeps the freezer between 34 and 32ºF (liquid temperature at the top of the freezer) and the whole system is brand new. The kegs have been sitting in the freezer for 2 weeks now. I have the pressures for both set at around 10. And yes, I do know how to pour a beer, so it is not that.

Any ideas what happened/is happening to my left tap? Why does the left tap dispense almost all foam? Why does the right half dispense half foam?

 

[Hammy71]

That's kinda cold. Especially if that's at the top of the freezer. Heat rises so, the bottom is probably much colder and the beer may be frozen more in the one keg than the other. How long are the beer lines? The sticking issue is probably the taps themselves. I replaced my older cheap ones with Perlicks. They forward seal so they don't get sticky. Cost more, but well worth it. The older ones I had to take off every couple of weeks, disassemble, and clean. PITA.

 

[krenshaw]

my taps get a little sticky, i use these now - Kleen Plugs. They help a bit but that won't help the foaming problem.. did i read correctly that you keep your beer between 32 and 34 degrees? why so cold?

 

[yo1dog]

The only reason I had it so cold was to eliminate the temperature as the cause of the foam. Could the beer being too cold make it foamy?

So actually, the right tap was pouring fine... it was just almost empty .

However now the left one is now acting very strange! The first glass of the night seems to always be mostly foam, but after that it is usually fine... I say "usually" because it can dispense 5 beers perfectly, then the 6th will be almost all foam, then the next ones will be fine again.

Hopes this helps diagnose the problem.

Thanks,
- Mike

 

[beaksnbeer]

The colder the beer the faster and easier it absorbs co2 so odds are your over carbed. AS for sticky taps go to Perlicks or drink more

 

[Lost]

the colder the beer the faster and easier it absorbs co2 so odds are your over carbed. As for sticky taps go to perlicks or drink more:d

+1

Check your volumes of co2 using a carb chart. How many volumes at your pressure and temperature?

 

[yo1dog]

It is around 8-10 PSI and at 34 - 32ºF. According to this chart I should be OK. I'll try raising the temperature again and see if that helps.

And I have ordered 2 of these Perlicks.

 

[yo1dog]

(double post sorry)

 

[BigdogMark]

The colder the beer the faster and easier it absorbs co2 so odds are your over carbed. AS for sticky taps go to Perlicks or drink more

I wouldn't even put an enemies keg on a perlick tap. You can kill the enemy and drink his beer, but if it's on a perlick tap then it will be on the floor. My beer bud has been through three perlick taps, and we estimate 20+ gallons of been on the floor. The perlick taps are buried in the pile of stupid beer equipment purchases. And yes, he has asked for support and replacement with no responses.

 

[Lost]

I wouldn't even put an enemies keg on a perlick tap. You can kill the enemy and drink his beer, but if it's on a perlick tap then it will be on the floor. My beer bud has been through three perlick taps, and we estimate 20+ gallons of been on the floor. The perlick taps are buried in the pile of stupid beer equipment purchases. And yes, he has asked for support and replacement with no responses.

It's posts like this that have always made me leery of perlick. That and the shank fit issue. My cheap chrome ones have served me fine for years. Everytime I think about upgrading I see another post like this and change my mind.

 

[day_trippr]

My six 525ss faucets fit perfectly, work perfectly, never stick, and look great. I'd recommend them to anyone who asked...

Cheers!

 

[Lost]

How long is your beer line. LHBS almost always sell a line that is too short.
You could have 2 problems going - over carbed beer and an unbalanced system. 1/4" line should probably be 10ft and 3/16" line should be about 8ft or so.

 

[brewingmeister]

Possibly the first anti perlick comment I've come across.

What was the cause of the leaking? An enormous out of balance tap handle?

-cheers

 

[day_trippr]

How long is your beer line. LHBS almost always sell a line that is too short.
You could have 2 problems going - over carbed beer and an unbalanced system. 1/4" line should probably be 10ft and 3/16" line should be about 8ft or so.

fwiw, 3/16" ID beer line has a typical resistance equivalent to 2.7 psi/foot, and 1/4" ID beer line is at 0.7 psi/foot. If 8 feet would be the right length for 3/16" ID line, that 1/4" line would have to be a lot longer than 10 ft, like closer to 40 feet...

Cheers!

 

[beaksnbeer]

I wouldn't even put an enemies keg on a perlick tap. You can kill the enemy and drink his beer, but if it's on a perlick tap then it will be on the floor. My beer bud has been through three perlick taps, and we estimate 20+ gallons of been on the floor. The perlick taps are buried in the pile of stupid beer equipment purchases. And yes, he has asked for support and replacement with no responses.

I will buy them!!!!

 

[Lost]

fwiw, 3/16" ID beer line has a typical resistance equivalent to 2.7 psi/foot, and 1/4" ID beer line is at 0.7 psi/foot. If 8 feet would be the right length for 3/16" ID line, that 1/4" line would have to be a lot longer than 10 ft, like closer to 40 feet...

Cheers!

Hmmm.. I'm basing this on experience, nothing scientific. I'm pretty sure my old vinyl hose was 1/4" and I'm using the accuflex bev seal 3/16" now. I could be wrong though.

If you've got the facts from the manufacturer then I defer to your advice.

 

[Musketear]

Back to the original post, I had very similar problems when I started kegging. The foam for me is a combination of two things. The first was a warm faucet. I would always pour one really foamy beer first, and then the second wouldn't be nearly as foamy.

However, I am still having minor foam issues, so I am placing the LHBS supplied 5 ft lines with 10 ft lines, which should help considerably.

The stuck faucet just turned out to be a cheap chrome faucet issue. Since they have a vent, the beer can actually dry around the little rod that you can see moving in and out when you open and close the tap (effectively glueing it in place). This never happened when I was living on the humid east coast, but now that I am in Colorado, it happens all the time. The only way to remedy it temporarily is to take the tap off/apart and soak it in water to remove the build-up.

 

[Lost]

Back to the original post, I had very similar problems when I started kegging. The foam for me is a combination of two things. The first was a warm faucet. I would always pour one really foamy beer first, and then the second wouldn't be nearly as foamy.

However, I am still having minor foam issues, so I am placing the LHBS supplied 5 ft lines with 10 ft lines, which should help considerably.

The stuck faucet just turned out to be a cheap chrome faucet issue. Since they have a vent, the beer can actually dry around the little rod that you can see moving in and out when you open and close the tap (effectively glueing it in place). This never happened when I was living on the humid east coast, but now that I am in Colorado, it happens all the time. The only way to remedy it temporarily is to take the tap off/apart and soak it in water to remove the build-up.

Interesting. I have never had the sticky tap problem unless the tap sits unused for several days. I'm in FL where the average daily humidity is 75%.

 

[yo1dog]

I had only heard good things about those taps (Perlick PERL 575SS Creamer Version), and they are already in the mail so no going back.

How long is your beer line. LHBS almost always sell a line that is too short.
You could have 2 problems going - over carbed beer and an unbalanced system. 1/4" line should probably be 10ft and 3/16" line should be about 8ft or so.

My beer lines are "Two 5' Lengths of 3/16 Clear Beer Tubing" that came with the column.

Back to the original post, I had very similar problems when I started kegging. The foam for me is a combination of two things. The first was a warm faucet. I would always pour one really foamy beer first, and then the second wouldn't be nearly as foamy.

How do you get a cool faucet? I assume buy cooling the column with a fan. Would a larger computer fan work for this purpose?

However, I am still having minor foam issues, so I am placing the LHBS supplied 5 ft lines with 10 ft lines, which should help considerably.

The stuck faucet just turned out to be a cheap chrome faucet issue. Since they have a vent, the beer can actually dry around the little rod that you can see moving in and out when you open and close the tap (effectively glueing it in place). This never happened when I was living on the humid east coast, but now that I am in Colorado, it happens all the time. The only way to remedy it temporarily is to take the tap off/apart and soak it in water to remove the build-up.

This sounds exactly like my problems. I guess I will order another 2 lengths of 5ft beer line. I was planning on installing a flowmeter anyway so I can just use that to connect the two lengths.

Thanks for all the help and advice!


Edit:
I forgot to ask: How exactly does the length of the beer line effect the carbonation? I assume the length of the co2 lines don't matter.

 

[day_trippr]

[...]
How do you get a cool faucet? I assume buy cooling the column with a fan. Would a larger computer fan work for this purpose?

Actually, a small fan. Mounted in a small plastic enclosure, blowing into a 1" ID vinyl hose also attached to the enclosure, then run up the column. For example, I cobbled this contraption together. It runs off a small wall wort 12v power supply:

I forgot to ask: How exactly does the length of the beer line effect the carbonation? I assume the length of the co2 lines don't matter.

Correct, the CO2 lines don't matter. The beer lines have to provide enough resistance that - along with the effects of vertical runs and a small amount of resistance provided by the faucet - the total resistance to the beer flowing out of the keg and up to the faucet matches the carbonation level of the beer, to keep said beer "compressed" (for lack of a better concept) such that the CO2 doesn't come out of solution...

Cheers!

 

[yo1dog]

Looks easy enough. Thanks.


Yet another question:
Please keep in mind that I am completely new to the whole plumbing scene so any advice or tips are welcome.

I want to install some flow meters into my beer lines. I figure sense I need to add another 5' of tubing to my existing 5' I can put the flow sensor between the two.

After reading another topic on the same matter I bought two of these flow meters (one for each line). When they arrived I went over to Home Depot and got 4 of these brass barbs and 4 of these brass couplings.

Straightforward my setup is:
1. Keg
2. 5' of 3/16" ID tubing
3. 3/16" barb to 1/4" brass hose adapter
4. 1/4" to 1/2" brass coupling
5. Flow meter (plastic)
6. 1/2" to 1/4" brass coupling
7. 1/4" to 3/16" barb brass hose adapter
8. 5' of 3/16" ID tubing
9. Tap

Are there any washers, grommets, sealers, spacers, etc. that I need to put between any of these components?

Thanks!
- Mike

 

[day_trippr]

[...]Are there any washers, grommets, sealers, spacers, etc. that I need to put between any of these components?

If the Quick Disconnect to the keg is assumed, and you have 3/16" barbs on the shank tail pieces, it just looks like you should have a roll of teflon pipe tape handy, otherwise I think you're good.

But...I have to ask: why the flow rate meters? Got a potential beer thief hanging out around the compound and you're hooking them up to an alarm?

Cheers!

 

[Lost]

I too am curious, why on earth would you need to know how fast the beer is flowing?

Couple points:
1.flow sensors should be cleaned thoroughly so be sure you can think up a suitable cleaning protocol for them (i.e. Disassembly or soaking).
2. I would be a little reluctant to have brass fittings in contact with the finished product and this from someone who uses brass fittings in his brew rig. Putting the usual lead concerns aside there is also now the issue of copper poisoning since fermentation is complete and the yeast won't be eating any copper. Plus the beer will just be sitting in contact with the fittings for hours or days at a time and leaching increases with time.
3. The line serves as a flow restriction so the beer does not shoot out of the faucet (the rough pour will foam your beer). The beer is under 10-15 psi in the keg but you want it to flow out of the faucet with only very slight pressure so you "balance" or offset the pressure in the keg with the appropriate length of line. This its what is meant by a "balanced" system.

 

[yo1dog]

But...I have to ask: why the flow rate meters? Got a potential beer thief hanging out around the compound and you're hooking them up to an alarm?

Using the flow rate you can calculate the volume of beer dispensed. I am hooking them up to a microcontroller which connects to my local server and keeps records of when beer is poured, how much was poured, and the kind of beer that is poured. This serves two purposes:

1. By keeping track of how much beer has been dispensed you know how much beer is left (low keg indicator).

2. By collecting this data you can compile some cool data points and statistics. Ex: on average what day/week/month the most beer is consumed, total amount of beer consumed, etc.


Lost,
I didn't see any fittings that would work besides the brass ones.

 

[day_trippr]

Using the flow rate you can calculate the volume of beer dispensed. I am hooking them up to a microcontroller which connects to my local server and keeps records of when beer is poured, how much was poured, and the kind of beer that is poured. This serves two purposes:

1. By keeping track of how much beer has been dispensed you know how much beer is left (low keg indicator).

2. By collecting this data you can compile some cool data points and statistics. Ex: on average what day/week/month the most beer is consumed, total amount of beer consumed, etc.[...]

Ummmm......I got nothing...

Cheers!

 

[yo1dog]

It tells me when I am almost out of beer and where all the beer went! Ha

 

[krenshaw]

1. By keeping track of how much beer has been dispensed you know how much beer is left (low keg indicator).

2. By collecting this data you can compile some cool data points and statistics. Ex: on average what day/week/month the most beer is consumed, total amount of beer consumed, etc.

#2 is pretty cool.. though #1 can easily be done by picking up the keg

 

[Lost]

Using the flow rate you can calculate the volume of beer dispensed. I am hooking them up to a microcontroller which connects to my local server and keeps records of when beer is poured, how much was poured, and the kind of beer that is poured. This serves two purposes:

1. By keeping track of how much beer has been dispensed you know how much beer is left (low keg indicator).

2. By collecting this data you can compile some cool data points and statistics. Ex: on average what day/week/month the most beer is consumed, total amount of beer consumed, etc.


Lost,
I didn't see any fittings that would work besides the brass ones.

Very cool. I wish I had the know how to construct something like that. I'm an academic by trade and I love data. I could see myself tracking that sort of info and plugging it into stata.. oh the fun I would have! [/nerd]

As to the fittings, you won't find stainless at lowes or HD. You may have to look on line, www.plumbersurplus.com is pretty good and www.directmaterial.com also has some pretty good prices. The 'fancy' way to go would be to use swagelok fittings (www.swagelok.com).

You should also check out the sponsors of this site, many of them have precisely the sort of fittings you would want (along with other cool parts) for very reasonable prices. Brewer's hardware and bargain fittings both come to mind.

I'm not saying the brass will definitely kill or poison you. The beer is *probably* still worse for your health than the brass. I am usually the skeptic around here when the SS fanatics start waving the brass=lead poisoning flag around. But brass in the application you have in mind is, IMO, worse than the usual application during the brew process (and again I am usually the guy saying brass is safe). If you have the money I would definitely consider SS in this application.

 

[yo1dog]

Very cool. I wish I had the know how to construct something like that. I'm an academic by trade and I love data. I could see myself tracking that sort of info and plugging it into stata.. oh the fun I would have! [/nerd]

It really isn't that hard at all! You should look into the Arduino micro-controller. It is great for electronics beginners (such as myself) and there are tutorials on how to do pretty much anything, including everything I am doing.

As to the fittings, you won't find stainless at lowes or HD. You may have to look on line, www.plumbersurplus.com is pretty good and www.directmaterial.com also has some pretty good prices. The 'fancy' way to go would be to use swagelok fittings (www.swagelok.com).

I don't want to seem lazy (I really did look for the longest time!) but I cannot find what I am looking for on any of those sites... probably because I don't know what I am looking for or should search. Can you point me in the right direction?

 

[Handsaw]

yo1dog did you ever build this thing?