First Wort Hopping (FWH) - BIAB - when do you remove the hops?

[BenCL]

No chill deep web

 

[Clarke]

I have read many articles here and elsewhere on first wort hopping (FWH).
My understanding is you use the flavor hops (typically added at 10-15 minutes remaining in the boil) at the beginning of sparging.

1. For traditional all grain setups, you place the hops in your kettle, and let them steep for 30+ minutes in the wort runnings.
At what temperature? 167? 152?


2. For BIAB this step doesn't exist.
So I wonder if you can place them in the grain, or in a hops bag, and mash them for 60 minutes. The hops will be exposed to 152 degree water.
Has anyone done this?


3. Do you remove these FW hops and discard them at the start of the boil?
Or do you then leave them in the one hour boil?

1. at whatever temp your wort runnings are running at, I would think that your mashout is more important than your FWH at this stage. That being said there is a magic zone where the oils change and are utilized differently at different temp. per different oil per percentage of that oil in which ever hop you are using.

2. This is called mash hopping not FWH

3. For BIAB this step does exist, I always FWH, when I pull the bag I dump my hops into the wort while the bag drains then bring the pot to boil, I leave the hops in for the entire duration, FWH from what I have read, the lower temp at before the boil creates a smoother taste and increase the IBU by 10% when boiled... It's voodoo magic.


http://beersmith.com/blog/2008/11/11/best-hop-techniques-for-homebrewing/

http://beerlegends.com/hops-varieties

https://www.hopunion.com/aroma-wheel/

 

[dstockwell]

So would you gain flavor from FWH if you pulled them before the boil and used a second hop for bitterness? Or is this the same as a knockout addition @ 160 - 170F

 

[m00ps]

So would you gain flavor from FWH if you pulled them before the boil and used a second hop for bitterness? Or is this the same as a knockout addition @ 160 - 170F

I dont think you can really compare it to a post boil addition. YOu arent going to taste anything at all from a bittering addition, be it a 60min, 90min, or fwh addition (aside from the bitterness).

 

[dstockwell]

Then I don't get FWH. I input into Brewers Friend 1oz FWH and get 27IBU, change it to 60 min boil and get 45IBU for the same 1oz.

 

[Clarke]

I do a lot of SMaSH beers and I think I can taste a difference.

from one of the links above: "In blind taste tests, beers brewed with this method are perceived as smoother, better blended and have less of a bitter edge and aftertaste"

Just try it for yourself, you be the judge then tell us what you think.

 

[Clarke]

Then I don't get FWH. I input into Brewers Friend 1oz FWH and get 27IBU, change it to 60 min boil and get 45IBU for the same 1oz.

"Calculating the FWH numerically is quite simple. In most cases an adjustment (10%) is added to the calculated bitterness in IBUs to account for the higher utilization of FWH methods. "

http://beersmith.com/blog/2008/03/17/the-first-wort-hop-beer-brewing-techniques/

 

[dstockwell]

Thanks, I read that. I found out Brewers Friend uses 20 minute calculation for FWH.

 

[solbes]

I swap out 60 minute bittering additions quite regularly for FWH additions at a 1:1 ratio (including pale ales). I do think I can taste some of the flavor in FWH, but obviously it isn't going to do what a 10-20 minute addition will. I do admit for IPA's and IIPA's I make sure I have either a 60 or 90 minute addition that augments the FWH addition.

I find FWH adds more perceived bitterness than the previously mentioned 20 minute hop addition correlation.

 

[Yooper]

Thanks, I read that. I found out Brewers Friend uses 20 minute calculation for FWH.

Right. Which really doesn't make any sense, since the wort is boiled for at least 60 minutes, almost always.

The IBUs may seem "smoother", but there is still isomerization and the long boil will exacerbate that.

I've read that "FWH is like a 20 minute addition", but if you've ever done it, you know it's bunk.