First set of score sheets

[Cajunbrewer87]

Just got back from my first competition. The main reason I entered is for feedback and advice on how I can improve my beer. My american amber ale scored a 37. It says that aromatics are low, slight alcohol taste(I use a temp controlled fridge so I'm trying to figure out what caused that) It also says that caramel should be pronounced in flavor and aroma, but are very subdued in this beer. It also says that the hop flavor was earthy, I used cascade hops but no one wrote they noticed any citrus in it..old batch of hops maybe???one guy wrote slight metallic taste but I think thats because I went a little too far with my water adjustment. So looking at my recipe, what should I change based on the flaws that the judges found?

(Brew in a bag)
9# maris otter
1# munich
1# crystal 40
12 oz victory
4 oz pale chocolate
Mashed at 154, 75 min mash
.75 oz perle hops at 60 mins
.5 oz cascade at 15 mins
1 oz cascade at flame out
Fermented with wlp001 california ale in a plastic bucket at 66 and let it rise to 70 as fermentation slowed down

 

[Braufessor]

Was it a BJCP competition? Were the judges fairly highly ranked ..... were they BJCP judges?

I would not change anything on one set of score sheets - especially if you like the beer, and it scored 37 (that is technically a very high score).

If I am really looking to get useful feedback on a beer, I enter the same beer in 3 or 4 big, quality competitions where it is likely to land in front of several experienced judges and then I tend to look for the consistencies of the experienced judges as to something that I may need to change.

In looking at your recipe, if I was looking to change something about it simply on the recipe, having never tasted it, it does not look like it would be very hoppy. I like the looks of the grainbill, and 001 is a standard yeast. But, the hopping seems pretty low.

 

[Cajunbrewer87]

Thanks for the suggestion! One of the judges was recognized bjcp and the other was certified bjcp. I would love to keep entering my beers but they dont have very many competitions where I live, unfortunately.

 

[ram5ey]

Do you use pure O2? Too much pure O2 can give a slight alcohol aroma I've heard. 37 is a good score though. Great work!

 

[Cajunbrewer87]

I don't use pure O2, I use an aquarium pump with a sterile filter. And thanks!

 

[Braufessor]

Sounds like you had some experienced judges, so that is good. You can ship to competitions..... that is what I do. I am not within 150 miles of any competitions either, so shipping is really the only option usually. It is really best to get multiple opinions, plus checking your own personal perceptions of what the judges noticed.

Another thought, water could play a role in how pronounced, sharp or muted malt and hop perception is in your beer.

 

[Yooper]

American amber is one of my favorite styles! A score of 37 is in the 'very good' category, almost excellent- so that is actually a good score.

As far as improving the beer, a simple fix will be to add more crystal malt, of a different type. In a well hopped amber, the crystal malt can make up up to 15% of the recipe. Say, 1 pound of 40L and .5 pound of 80L, for example. That will give a depth of flavor and complexity while providing the crystal malt flavor so prominent in an amber. I like victory malt, but it's 'toasty' and not caramel so you may want to try a batch with no victory malt and increasing the crystal malt unless you love the victory malt in it.

As far as 'earthy' flavor, that could come from older hops but it could also be early oxidation. It also could be a metallic earthy flavor from the chocolate malt, unless you used pale chocolate malt. I've noticed that in some lighter beers that use chocolate malt as they get a wee bit older- it's got a metallic tinge to it.

Water is a huge part. I would use a pretty balanced water in this beer, with minimal adjustments and not much sulfate.

 

[Cajunbrewer87]

Thanks everyone, really great advice that I'll put to use for sure!

 

[treacheroustexan]

37 is a great score. Keep doing what you're doing!

 

[Cajunbrewer87]

Thanks! Here's the deal though, I do want to try a new recipe, and if I dont like it, I have the old recipe down to every last detail in the brew notes. I do like the biscuit flavor that the victory adds, however I do agree that this recipe needs more caramel. So I took out the pale chocolate, bumped down the victory a tad and added a half pound of c80 as Yooper suggested. On beersmith it says that I am still well within the color range. I also changed the hops up. Went with centennial as my bittering hops since it is supposed to be cleaner. Also switched from cascade to amarillo as my aroma hops. Ive heard the two are similar and I want to see if I like amarillo better, I also added a touch more to balance the extra sweetness from the crystal malts. Tell me what yall think.

9# maris otter
1# munich
1# crystal 40
8 oz crystal 80
8 oz victory

.5 oz centennial 60 mins
1 oz amarillo 10 mins
1 oz amarillo flameout

Maybe I am making too many changes to a beer that scored a 37. But my main goal is more caramel flavor/aroma, and more citrus in the hop flavor/aroma(not earthy like the judges and others have said) Cant thank yall enough for the help!

 

[CA_Mouse]

I think you will be pleased with this version. I like the change to Amarillo (one of my favorite hops). I tried Centennial as a bittering hop once, but wasn't as happy with it as I am with Magnum. IMNSHO, Magnum has been about the cleanest bittering hop I've used. You can, also, try CTZ and using it as a First Wort Hop. Almost all of my West Coast Pales and IPAs have benefited from FWH with the CTZ hops. They produce a very distinct White Grapefruit taste and bitterness.

 

[Cajunbrewer87]

Awesome, sounds tasty!

 

[MileHighBrewer]

What munich were you using or planning to use? That's like saying my recipe is 2row and crystal....there are lits if versions of both.

You could try using some 10-15L munich, like weyerman munich II or breiss bonlander, to get some more caramel and a rich hue. That might work with your original recipe...maybe a tad more then a pound.

Maybe consider .5oz Amarillo at 15 .5@10 and 1oz @ 5 & FO. Or use .5 oz centennial in one of those too. Sometimes mixing the hops helps bring out stronger characteristics.

 

[Cajunbrewer87]

I thought there were only light munich and dark munich, learn something new everyday. I use 10L last time. I was also thinking about mixing in a different aroma hop too. Might as well do what you suggested, since I will have some centennial left over.