First Lager

[nianticcardplayer]

Well I don't know if I stepped off the deep end or not. I brewed my first lager last night, and have it cooled down from 80 to 54 degrees in 24 hours. One question I have is that too quick of a temp bring down ?

Also for the first time I used a whirlfloc tab and I have never seen the reaction to the wort like that before. Almost looked like some kind of cottony cloud was floating in the wort and ended up in the fermentor.

I did top off to about 5 and one half gallons because it sure looks like a lot of sediment will be coming out.

This a stella clone recipe from AHS and I used two gallons of spring water and two gallons of distilled water as well as ice made from the distilled water, to help cool the wort. Yeast was the Wyeast czech pilsner pitched at 78-80 degrees..

Fermentor placed in cold place and by midnight temp was to 66 degrees this morning 54 degrees Fahrenheit.

Directions say in 7 to 10 days move to secondary.........I hope I am doing this right.....

 

[Yooper]

Aside from pitching at 80 degrees (ouch) it seems ok, as long as you made a big enough starter for a lager. You don't want to move to secondary until the beer is completely done- diacetyl rest and all. The best thing to do is to watch for slow activity, and when the beer is at about 75% done (about 1.020-1.024), raise the temperature for a diacetyl rest. Pitching warm like that means some issues with diacetyl, so you want to make sure your do a thorough diacetyl rest before racking from off the yeast. Once the beer is at FG, and there is NO sign of diacetyl, then the beer can be racked to secondary.

 

[flabyboy]

It amazes me how bad these kit directions really can be. Listen to Yooper and Try not to follow the timetable in the directions. Take a reading after 7-10 days and if its almost dine than move to warmer room for the diacetyl rest for 2-3 days. Then transfer to your beer to a secondary and keep it at ~32 degrees for a couple months.

 

[Malticulous]

Wyeast recommends pitching warm because the yeast multiply faster for shorter lag time. It's not because it makes better beer. Within six hours the yeast should have doubled at least once. With that low of pitch rate oxygen is going to be the limiting factor for yeast growth. I would go ahead and shake that fermenter now to try to get some more air into the wort. Without a starter you should probably have used 3-5 packs.

Dry yeast would have been better. Properly rehydrated you get more than double the cells per pack and they don't need oxygen to multiply.

 

[nianticcardplayer]

The yeast pack was smacked 2 days before pitching the packaged was swelled and just like all of the other wyeast packs I have used.....so I think I am good there. I am just keeping an eye on all of it to make sure it doesn't get to cold I figure if I can maintain 52-54 degrees I should be good for the 7 to 10 day period.......

 

[Yooper]

The yeast pack was smacked 2 days before pitching the packaged was swelled and just like all of the other wyeast packs I have used.....so I think I am good there. I am just keeping an eye on all of it to make sure it doesn't get to cold I figure if I can maintain 52-54 degrees I should be good for the 7 to 10 day period.......

Yeah, you'd think but lagers need about twice the yeast of ales, and one smackpack is only about 1/4 of the yeast you need, maybe less.

In any case, for next time you will know to make a BIG starter (or buy four to six packages of yeast) and to pitch at fermentation temperatures. Or use dry lager yeast. But for this time, just waiting it out will work just fine.

 

[kerant]

Aside from pitching at 80 degrees (ouch) it seems ok, as long as you made a big enough starter for a lager. You don't want to move to secondary until the beer is completely done- diacetyl rest and all. The best thing to do is to watch for slow activity, and when the beer is at about 75% done (about 1.020-1.024), raise the temperature for a diacetyl rest. Pitching warm like that means some issues with diacetyl, so you want to make sure your do a thorough diacetyl rest before racking from off the yeast. Once the beer is at FG, and there is NO sign of diacetyl, then the beer can be racked to secondary.

For us newbs can you give me a better description of what diacety is and how to do the rest properly.
Thanks

 

[nianticcardplayer]

So would it be to late to say add two pack of dry yeast ? I will be passing by the only store that has brewing supplies locally in about 30 minutes or so....pick up a package or two of S-23?

 

[Malticulous]

I' doubt you will get a big enough of culture to get it done in 10 days if you get it that cool. I've had regular strength lagers finish in less than a week at 50F with a single pack of W 34/70 (about 230 billion cells.) Mr. Malty probably would calculate you needed around 350 billion. You pitched less than 1/3 that. The good news is it will still be beer.

I just got 12 grams of S-189. I'm going to make a Stella like beer with it to get yeast for a dopple bock. I'll probably use some of the harvested slurry for another light lager too, that way I'll have more healthy slurry for a helles bock in a few months.

 

[Malticulous]

When I see the air lock activity start to slow I warm them up. They are always in the 1.020's then.

 

[jigidyjim]

I made the same AHS kit, and under pitched what mr. malty says but still pitched more than you did. I've also made 2 other lagers where I under pitched. None of them done fermenting for at least 3 weeks (I think one took 4). People on this board will scare you about how bad it is to under pitch, but all 3 of my under pitched lagers came out fine, just took a really long time. Only one of them had what I think was a slight off flavor that only I noticed (the people I gave the beer to never noticed).

Diacetyl is a butter-like taste. It's really noticeable when the beer gets warm. Take a sample, warm it up in the microwave. If it tastes like butter, it's diacetyl. I actually had a commercial IPA once that had so much diacetyl taste to it I couldn't drink it, it was like drinking movie theater popcorn.

To rest: when your fermentation is about 80% done, raise the temp to room temp. Higher ferm temps help clean up Diacetyl, which is why ales rarely have it. For more specifics, search the forums, there is tons of info on it (there are more precise instructions about when to do it, and exactly how much to raise the temp by - these are just the general/easy to remember rules).

 

[nianticcardplayer]

Thanks for all of the information.....I will be patient and more patient there was some bubbling out of the airlock (Bubbler) just keeping an eye on it this morning hovering between 52-54 degrees on the stick on thermometer....

 

[helibrewer]

During fermentation yeast produce many by-products, one of those is diacetyl, the chemical compound used to make artificial butter flavor.

Once the supply of sugar dwindles down the yeast will metabolize some of these by-products cleaning up after themselves (the conditioning phase).

The diacetyl rest (DR) facilitates this by raising the temperature to 58-60 degrees for about 3 days. When you think your DR may be finished, taste a sample to verify. I usually have my wife do the sampling because my taste buds suck at picking up some of these discrete flavors.

 

[nianticcardplayer]

Still being patient temps between 52-54 degrees, have had some movement in the bubbler over the last three days so I know something happening, according to the directions I should take a gravity reading and get ready to move to secondary but I still have bubbles going so I think I will leave it for a little while longer.

Thanks everyone for the information......I can't wait to get a taste of this when it's finished.

 

[nianticcardplayer]

Ok;

13 days in the primary...I take a reading and I am down to 1.014 so I am getting close to the 1.008 the instructions say is the target final gravity. I have done to the bring up and so on I also took a couple of pics.

I used whirlfloc tablet in this brew and I will tell you there was a lot of sediment at the bottom of the primary for sure.... Here are the pics;


They show the sludge in the primary.......ring at the top and of course my test sample and it tasted Good........

 

[nianticcardplayer]

I am approaching taking another reading today....If I have gotten closer to the targeted FG I will begin lagering temps will be in the 40-42ish range...My Question now is when I go to bottle (and use my 5L mini kegs) do I carb at 70ish tem for the two weeks and then stick back into the 40ish temps until they hit the fridge?

Thanks for all the help with my first lager.....

Ron

 

[Malticulous]

I like to get rid of the yeast before bottling. Lager yeast is not great for bottling. It dosen't flocculate well and tends to be powdery. Nothing is worse than a yeasty lager. I just add a few grams of a good dry ale yeast. Lager the bottles after you confirm they are carbonated. Often that's just one week.

 

[nianticcardplayer]

Are you adding that to the bottling bucket re hydrated?

 

[Malticulous]

I sprinkle it in (as it racks then stir it and the primer well before bottling.) If you rehydrate you can use even less. Fermentis recommends around .5-1 gram per five gallons.