first lager tastes like corn

[jeff62217]

A little disappointed at my first lager. Great color, head, missed target og by a few points, but otherwise ok.. just a undeniable corn-like flavor.

Made this recipe
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f57/2011-1st-place-hbt-light-lager-augustiner-lagerbier-hell-238906/

had some issues keeping fermentation temps steady.. varied from 50-56, only got above that one time while my household electrical fuse box was being replaced. Even then it only got to 59.

I did mash for 90 minutes, but may have been lower than target mash temp as it fermented out to 1.006 after diacetyl rest. OG was 1.046, wyeast 2124 bohemian lager

Would really like to know what causes the corn flavor... stressing the yeast with the temp fluctuations? something else?

Don't want to have to suffer through 5 more gallons of corn beer.

 

[TallDan]

had some issues keeping fermentation temps steady.. varied from 150-156, only got above that one time while my household electrical fuse box was being replaced. Even then it only got to 159.

This was some sort of typo, right?

 

[jeff62217]

This was some sort of typo, right?

yeah, those dang 1's just come outta nowhere sometimes. edited.

 

[TNGabe]

What do you mean by corn? Do you mean sweet and grainy or cooked / creamed corn? If it's creamed corn, that's often used to describe DMS.

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

How long was it fermented? How long and when was the D-Rest?

I think its most likely the wild temperature fluctuations, especially if it got to 59 during the first few days.
You should also typically do a D-Rest when fermentation is still active but nearing completion, say when your at 75-80% of your expected attenuation...so that the yeast are still active and can clean up the beer better.

 

[jeff62217]

What do you mean by corn? Do you mean sweet and grainy or cooked / creamed corn? If it's creamed corn, that's often used to describe DMS.

Yeah, it's definitely cooked/cream corn flavor.

 

[fearwig]

I have had some great beers that taste like corn, unless you mean canned corn, because that's gross and likely DMS. Consider a 90 minute boil, especially if you can't quite get it rolling.

 

[jeff62217]

How long was it fermented? How long and when was the D-Rest?

I think its most likely the wild temperature fluctuations, especially if it got to 59 during the first few days.
You should also typically do a D-Rest when fermentation is still active but nearing completion, say when your at 75-80% of your expected attenuation...so that the yeast are still active and can clean up the beer better.

I checked it at 17 days and it was at 1.010 so I pulled it out even though I didn't taste diacetyl, let it rest 3 days at 65-68 degrees until it was 1.006. Then I kegged it at 35 for a week, tasted it and got the corn.. I think I tasted the corn before it was kegged, but carbonation seems to bring it out more. I was also hoping it was just a green flavor that would fade over time... not the case.

 

[BigFloyd]

What do you mean by corn? Do you mean sweet and grainy or cooked / creamed corn? If it's creamed corn, that's often used to describe DMS.

That would be the #1 suspect on my list for the cream corn flavor.

Any chance that you had the lid on during the boil? Did you use the 2-row listed in the recipe or try some pilsner malt in there?

 

[jeff62217]

That would be the #1 suspect on my list for the cream corn flavor.

Any chance that you had the lid on during the boil? Did you use the 2-row listed in the recipe or try some pilsner malt in there?

I did use domestic 2 row and boiled for 90 mins or more to get volume down. Also boiled without the lid.. but might not have had the boil rolling enough.

 

[govner1]

Sounds like DMS. How long was your boil? I know you mashed 90 minutes.


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[sketerbuck]

How quickly did you cool your wort after the boil?

 

[krackin]

Did you use corn? If not, then it doesn't taste like corn. It probably tastes like you really forked up.

It is time to get descriptions real time and as is and loose these ol' wives' tale descriptions.

 

[thegreatmaibockaddict]

I did use domestic 2 row and boiled for 90 mins or more to get volume down. Also boiled without the lid.. but might not have had the boil rolling enough.

Temp fluctuations shouldnt harm things unless they are quick and wild (like 50-70 in an hour). 2 row is a little less forgiving and will through off more DMS than pils malt, and well, how sensitive are you to the flavor? If it is something that turns your stomach, you may be more sensitive to it making a little seem like a lot...

 

[jeff62217]

How quickly did you cool your wort after the boil?

I used an immersion chiller, probably got it down to temps in about 20-30minutes

 

[jeff62217]

Temp fluctuations shouldnt harm things unless they are quick and wild (like 50-70 in an hour). 2 row is a little less forgiving and will through off more DMS than pils malt, and well, how sensitive are you to the flavor? If it is something that turns your stomach, you may be more sensitive to it making a little seem like a lot...

Well I wasn't planning on dumping it, but it sure isn't the kind of flavor profile I was after. I'm more concerned with making sure I figure out what went wrong and not repeating that error.

 

[thegreatmaibockaddict]

Well I wasn't planning on dumping it, but it sure isn't the kind of flavor profile I was after. I'm more concerned with making sure I figure out what went wrong and not repeating that error.

Do you have a local homebrew club? Do you have a local brewery/brewpub where you can chat with the brewer and have him taste? This being a forum makes it difficult to judge, so some more taste buds seem like the thing to do.

And your 20-30 min cooling time doesnt sound too bad, but did the wort sit for a while prior to beginning the chill?

 

[jeff62217]

Do you have a local homebrew club? Do you have a local brewery/brewpub where you can chat with the brewer and have him taste? This being a forum makes it difficult to judge, so some more taste buds seem like the thing to do.

And your 20-30 min cooling time doesnt sound too bad, but did the wort sit for a while prior to beginning the chill?

No, I chilled once I had the right volume, from 212 to about 75 in 20-30 mins.
I've taken brews to the LHBS before, I'm sure they'd have some good advice for me. There is a local brewery, but I don't know anyone there.

 

[thegreatmaibockaddict]

No, I chilled once I had the right volume, from 212 to about 75 in 20-30 mins.
I've taken brews to the LHBS before, I'm sure they'd have some good advice for me. There is a local brewery, but I don't know anyone there.

I do not have much brewing experience with 2 row but I do know that it takes 100 minutes of boil time to reduce DMS by the maximum amount (works great with a pils malt) and maybe you needed to do an even longer boil. We use a pre boil of 15 mins to allow the wort to settle giving a 105 total minute boil...

 

[Yooper]

Did you use corn? If not, then it doesn't taste like corn. It probably tastes like you really forked up.

It is time to get descriptions real time and as is and loose these ol' wives' tale descriptions.

Actually, "corn" is a perfect description of DMS. When it's really severe, it becomes even more vegetal, and leans towards "cooked cabbage", but "corn" is a great description of DMS.

 

[Joe Dragon]

That's my recipe. Yooper and I are both Certified Beer Judges and what you are experiencing is clearly DMS.

Beersmith has a very nice write-up on DMS. Many things can contribute to the production of DMS. http://beersmith.com/blog/2012/04/10/dimethyl-sulfides-dms-in-home-brewed-beer/

 

[fearwig]

That's a great article. Might scare some no-chillers into a 90-minute boil (though really probably irrelevant if they're doing ales anyway).

It does have me thinking maybe OP's brew caught a bug, and it just didn't make it to a full-on infection.

 

[jeff62217]

That's my recipe. Yooper and I are both Certified Beer Judges and what you are experiencing is clearly DMS.

Beersmith has a very nice write-up on DMS. Many things can contribute to the production of DMS. http://beersmith.com/blog/2012/04/10/dimethyl-sulfides-dms-in-home-brewed-beer/

And it's a great recipe, btw.. Aside from the corn aroma and slight cooked/creamed corn flavor which were probably caused by my inexperience, it's a solid beer... Thanks.

 

[Joe Dragon]

And it's a great recipe, btw.. Aside from the corn aroma and slight cooked/creamed corn flavor which were probably caused by my inexperience, it's a solid beer... Thanks.

Thank you and you are very welcome. Many home brewers have a certain level of disdain for light lagers because.... well, I have no idea. I guess it's a lack of flavor.

Another reason might be because they are so difficult to brew. There is no way to hide the flaws. Give it another shot, PM me if you have any questions or post here.

Good luck Jeff.

 

[kombat]

2 row is a little less forgiving and will through off more DMS than pils malt

Isn't this backwards? I've always read that Pils malt throws off more DMS, which is why any recipe with Pilsner malt must be boiled for at least 90 minutes, but 2-row recipes can get away with a mere 60-minute boil.

Clarification/correction?

 

[thegreatmaibockaddict]

Isn't this backwards? I've always read that Pils malt throws off more DMS, which is why any recipe with Pilsner malt must be boiled for at least 90 minutes, but 2-row recipes can get away with a mere 60-minute boil.

Clarification/correction?

Yes you are right...I put that backwards. To much homebrew sorry!