First Lager- Questions abt Fermenting

[jasonclick]

I've brewed my first lager this past weekend...a bohemian pilsner. Used White Labs 800 yeast. Since fermenting a lager will take longer, I'm wondering what my times and steps are. Here's a little info about the brew.

*OG was 1044.
*I created a 2 liter starter (probably a little small from what I've read here).
*I pitched the yeast this past monday
*started to bubble by Tuesday (very slowly though)
*ferment temp is around 49-50

My questions are:
*how long to ferment in the Primary
*does it require racking to a secondary?
*Does it require a diacetyl rest? If so, how would I know? I've heard to do this @ high krausen

Thanks for the help

 

[COLObrewer]

It takes a long time for lagers, generally you could triple your ferment time but it really depends on a ton of things, some of it is experience. I will try and answer your questions in reverse order.

Daicetyl rest should be done when you are about 70% to FG, you know this by using your hydrometer, take a reading when the kreusen starts to subside, this should be about 3 weeks, depends on the brew. You can also taste the sample, if it tastes like butterscotch or butter, etc, definately do a diacetyl rest. I typically do a rest on all my lagers regardless, it doesn't hurt the beer. After a few different lager batches you will know from experience when to do a diacetyl rest. After the rest and all fermentation is complete (You are at your projected FG), either rack to secondary for lagering or place back in fermentation until things settle, again depends on the beer, I like to get it pretty clear before lagering.

You will want to rack to secondary for your lagering phase which should be 10+ degrees lower than your ferment temperature. This should take months.

You ferment in primary until fermentation is complete, as with most beers.

 

[1Mainebrew]

It isn't really so much a matter of time as it is gravity. When your gravity is down to 1.020 or below do the d rest. In my experience it's been once the krausen falls I'm at 1.015 or so and then I do my d rest by raising the temp to room temp and leaving it for 3 days. Then I rack to secondary and lager it for 4-6 weeks. Then I keg it. I just recently tried bottling my first lager by fermenting, doing my d rest, bottling and carbing and now lagering in the fridge for a couple months because I have other stuff to drink and sample so my curiosity doesn't get the best of me. I don't know if that will produce the same smooth lagers I've made by the above procedure but I have time to wait and let it get better. I also bottled an Oktoberfest but that was after 5 weeks of lagering and now half of it's lagering more in the fridge, the other half is at room temp still (I know it should be at cellar temps once carbed). We shall see....

 

[stratslinger]

Let's see here... One thing you didn't state (and believe it or not, it has a BIG impact on starters!): did you use a stirplate on your starter?

If you did, you only slightly underpitched with a 2 liter starter, according to both yeastcalc.com and mrmalty.com's pitch rate calculators. If you did not use a stir plate and instead just shook the starter every chance you got, they you underpitched by about 100billion cells - which isn't quite as bad as it sounds. If you just left the starter to sit there, well, that's much better than just directly pitching the smack pack... Lesson learned? Invest in a stir plate!

- As to how long in primary? Just like with ales, you can't pin a time table to lager fermentation. Best bet is going to be 10-15 days, but it could be significantly quicker, could be significantly slower.
- Does it require racking to a secondary? Lagers, in general, yes. Rack to a secondary vessel and begin the lagering, or cold storage, phase. This is where you age the lager for another month or two at fridge temperatures.
- D-Rest? Maybe - depends heavily on the grain bill, the boil conditions, and the fermentation profile. Do NOT do this at high krausen!!!! When you're about 75% of the way to your expected FG is when you want to perform your D-rest, IF it's necessary! At that point, taste a small sample. If it tastes buttery or has a slick, almost greasy/oily mouthfeel, then you have diacetyl and need to do a D-rest. If you have none of those symptoms, you can just leave the beer undisturbed to finish where it is. But if you have those symptoms, bring the temperature of the beer up by about 10 degrees or so for 2 days, and that'll be enough to rouse the yeast enough to clean it up.

 

[SpeedYellow]

IMHO you pitched plenty yeast (probably 60%, give or take, of the yeastcalc recommended amount) so you should have an active fermentation. You may well get 75% of the way to FG (for a d-rest) by 7-9 days, so keep watching. If you decide to do a d-rest, raise the thermostat to 65F and leave for 2-3 days. Then transfer to secondary for lagering and slowly cool (about 3F per day) to lagering temp (32-34F). Lager for 6-8 weeks. You can lager for less, but the quality really does suffer.

Personally, I look for when fermentation slows a lot, then take an SG reading. I'm usually late, so like 80% to 90% of my FG -- meh, whatever. Then I always do a d-rest just because it's so easy (just turn a t-stat knob).

 

[jasonclick]

I guess I should have got an ale going before I attempted this lager. It sounds like it's going to tie my freezer up for a while.

 

[SpeedYellow]

That's why I'm searching craigslist for a dedicated lagering freezer.

 

[Super64]

I'm going to bump this thread rather than start a new one.

I'm brewing a California Common using WLP810 San Fran Lager.

So far things look good, the pitch temp was 62 degrees.

Question is do I need to occasionally rouse this yeast to keep it working?

 

[Yooper]

I'm going to bump this thread rather than start a new one.

I'm brewing a California Common using WLP810 San Fran Lager.

So far things look good, the pitch temp was 62 degrees.

Question is do I need to occasionally rouse this yeast to keep it working?

No. That yeast works well at 62 degrees.