First Lager Question

[Ogilthorpe2]

Have a my first ever lager in the fermenter (Maibock 1.067 OG, predicted FG 1.012, Saflager W-34/70) bubbling away at 52F.

My plan was to lager in the keg. Do I wait for a stable FG before raising the temp for a diacetyl rest and then into the keg, or do I just get fairly close and let fermentation finish up during diacetyl rest and lagering process?

 

[day_trippr]

You don't want to wait until the yeast have given up the ghost. Start your d-rest with 2 to 5 fermentation points remaining...

Cheers!

 

[Bramling Cross]

Also, 34/70 is a very forgiving strain, it generally doesn't need a D-rest when adequately pitched. That said, a D-rest is cheap insurance and it's a good technique to have at your disposal because there are strains that certainly benefit from the practice.

As a new lager brewer, you might find this useful. I'm not as aggressive as Beechum, mostly because it places less stress on my anti-suck back system, but this technique works great with 34/70. It's worth considering on your re-pitch.

 

[NSMikeD]

If you don’t plan on cold crashing at kegging and lagering in the keg, with 34/70 and a Maibock the rest shouldn’t be necessary (see @Bramling Cross note on insurance). It’s more of an issue for light lagers where minute amounts could be tasted. Yeast will clean up the beer while aging (lagering) just at a slower pace than the rest.
I’m brewing my first lager (a Pilsner) and no rest is my plan. I’ve been in the primary for 3 weeks at 52-55 and will be transferring to the keg for lagering over a 4 to 6 week stay lowering to 45 at some point then crashing prior to tapping.

if I were resting, I’d go with @day_trippr suggesting to do it with 2 to 5 points remaining.

 

[jdauria]

I agree that with 34/70 and a maibock, you may not need a D-rest, but it will not hurt. I make a few lagers now and then...more like 85% of the time, but I use the 80% method for D-rest. You expect your beer to go from 1.067 to 1.012, that's 55 points, 80% of 55 is 44, 67-44= 1.023, is when I would start the D-rest. And by start, I mean I would start to slowly raise temps up. Usually I go from 52 to 56, then next day from 56 to 60, then 12 hours later up to 62.

 

[zacster]

The D-rest has the added benefit of finishing the fermentation quickly. Use the 80% method above, although I just set the temp on my fridge to 62-64 or so. Then cold crash it then keg it. I put it on gas in the keg and let it sit for a couple of weeks before I start tasting. I continue to taste it until it is fully lagered and by then half the keg is gone.

 

[NSMikeD]

The D-rest has the added benefit of finishing the fermentation quickly. Use the 80% method above, although I just set the temp on my fridge to 62-64 or so. Then cold crash it then keg it. I put it on gas in the keg and let it sit for a couple of weeks before I start tasting. I continue to taste it until it is fully lagered and by then half the keg is gone.

Out of curiosity. Why cold crash before kegging if you are going to continue lager in the keg? Doesn’t cold crashing accelerate the yeast to go dormant? What temp are you holding the keg before pouring?

 

[Beermeister32]

My vote would be to ramp up 5 degrees F per day near the end of fermentation until you get to ambient 65-68F and hold it there for several days. That should be a sufficient D-rest.

Transfer it to keg at ambient. There is no need to cold crash it, and there is risk of oxygen exposure from suck back if you cold crash. You will be lagering in a keg so it is not needed. Purge the keg with CO2 15 cycles.

Lager the keg 90 days at 34 degrees. If you want additional clarity, you can add gelatin along the way, make sure to purge CO2 if you do so.

 

[Jag75]

This is where a Tilt hydrometer comes in handy. It makes it easy to know when to start raising the temp up a few degrees a day until you hit D rest .

 

[VikeMan]

Why cold crash before kegging if you are going to continue lager in the keg?

The advantage to cold crashing in the fermenter before doing extended lagering in a keg is that some of the suspended yeast, proteins, and polyphenols will drop out before the transfer, so they don't end up in the keg. But I wouldn't recommend this unless there's a way to keep the keg under positive pressure during the crash, to avoid sucking air.

 

[NSMikeD]

The advantage to cold crashing in the fermenter before doing extended lagering in a keg is that some of the suspended yeast, proteins, and polyphenols will drop out before the transfer, so they don't end up in the keg. But I wouldn't recommend this unless there's a way to keep the keg under positive pressure during the crash, to avoid sucking air.

Thanks that’s what I thought. While I expected to have sediment flow up during an initial pour, I never experienced it, although I am generous in my fermenter loss estimates to leave trub behind. I also don’t rush the primary so I think that helps with clarity.
I use a portable CO2 cartridge with a pressure gauge to give the keg a bit of a charge before cold crashing and then a few more shots of CO2 along the way, just enough to keep positive pressure. I’m still looking into the correct adapter to fit on my extra soda stream canisters to hook up a regulator (the one I acquired threads were wrong even though the correct numbers were stamped on it) so I can fit it in my fermentation mini fridge. Filling them with dry ice is conventient and cheap.

not the most precise way and at first I was over doing the CO2 and creating some foam issues but I’ve adjusted.

 

[zacster]

The advantage to cold crashing in the fermenter before doing extended lagering in a keg is that some of the suspended yeast, proteins, and polyphenols will drop out before the transfer, so they don't end up in the keg. But I wouldn't recommend this unless there's a way to keep the keg under positive pressure during the crash, to avoid sucking air.

I haven't had a problem with sucking air. I use sanitizer in the airlock and if some of that got in no big deal. And yes, it is to drop as much as I can. I get clear beer out of the keg. It isn't really an extra step either, I cold crash in the primary and transfer to the keg. I'm just doing the transfer after it gets cold rather than before.

As for getting everything perfect, it really doesn't matter to me if it meets the standards. It is only my family and friends that ever get to drink it.

 

[VikeMan]

I haven't had a problem with sucking air. I use sanitizer in the airlock and if some of that got in no big deal.

If you cold crash with an airlock, you're getting air (including oxygen) in the fermenter and the beer. The sanitizer in the airlock is permeable, though it's certainly better than a dry airlock.